Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

And Israeli intelligence is excellent ..usually.
It has been described as a highly organised attack .. on land sea and air. It's baffling that Israeli intelligence didn't have any info.

It's likely they had information but somewhere along the line it either wasn't credited or politicians refused to act on it

 

[Bingoman]

Surely Putin's involved here somewhere.

This pic is quite surreal as they raided a retirement home for hostages and then drove them off in golf carts.

Apparently the woman holding the gun according to reports has dementia and has no idea what she doing?

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Where does he suggest they go?

Into the sea, no doubt.

 

[Gramsci]

Putin will be playing both sides...he supports Iran etc but is friends with Bibi and Russia/Russian domestic media is way more zionist than I was expecting

Same goes for Israel. This article says two reasons that the right in Israel would rather keep good relations with Putin than support Ukraine wholeheartedly. Been a lot of pressure on Israel government by US to support Ukraine more.

The Deeper Reason Netanyahu Won’t Arm Ukraine Against Russia

Jerusalem’s ties to Moscow are partly about security. They’re also about illiberalism.

foreignpolicy.com

1) Putin has large say in Syria. To bomb Iranian Revolutionary Guards Israel government needs good relations with Putin.

2) The rightward shift in Israel politics means increasing common values with illiberal democracies.

Even if much of the Israel-Russia relationship is about Syria and security, there is more to these ties. Israel’s leaders almost reflexively define the country as both democratic and part of the West, but worldview matters. And as Israeli politics have moved steadily to the right under Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s stewardship, Jerusalem has forged ties with countries that do not fall into either category.

Political affinities based on nationalism, identity, antipathy to liberalism, and hostility to Muslims seem to have played a role in driving Israel’s ties to a constellation of illiberal countries—notably Russia, Hungary, Poland, India, and Brazil under former President Jair Bolsonaro.

 

[A380]

Surprisingly on the BBC

I heard him live on BBC news channel this morning, was a very powerful speaker.

 

[elbows]

They might change the political situation by forming an emergency unity government:

Netanyahu, Lapid and Gantz discuss forming emergency government as country faces war

Opposition leader Lapid indicates PM will need to boot far right from coalition: 'I’m willing to put aside our differences and form an emergency, narrow, professional government'

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Petcha]

Weird selection of targets to take hostages from. Retirement homes and this trance festival in the desert. I've no beef with kidnapping soldiers, kind of anyway. But that footage of the young lass at the festie, nahhhh... As for the old girl with dementia.

 

[Yossarian]

Weird selection of targets to take hostages from. Retirement homes and this trance festival in the desert. I've no beef with kidnapping soldiers, kind of anyway. But that footage of the young lass at the festie, nahhhh... As for the old girl with dementia.

Yeah, military targets are one thing but I don't know if a lot of people are going to argue that massacring ravers, kidnapping old ladies etc. is anything other than fucked-up terrorist shit that's unlikely to do much for the Palestinian cause - but at the same time, it's the kind of shit that's absolutely inevitable when people are treated the way the Palestinians have been

 

[Dogsauce]

Tragically I don't think it can ever be solved bar one side actually exterminating the other. Neither side will accept a peace deal that would be acceptable to the other.

Sometimes I think it should be resolved the same way things are dealt with when my kids are fighting over a toy. “Right, none of you can have it” followed by confiscation. Maybe turn it into a giant nature reserve or a massive solar farm.

 

[Aladdin]

Apparently the woman holding the gun according to reports has dementia and has no idea what she doing?

That's terrifying.

 

[dilute micro]

Seems odd - this stuff only really works when it's by surprise. If Hezbollah aren't going to join in in the north, then what Hamas mean is 'we hope the attacks spread into the West Bank' - because if they don't (they will, but whether on anything like the scale, complexity and effect of the Hamas attacks is an answer I don't know..) then Hamas in the Gaza strip are going to get the full and undivided attention of the Israeli's, which I assume they'd rather not have.

Many Hyenas can take down a lion. One? Not so much.

Hezbollah has fired rockets. Not sure if it amounts to more than that.

Israel retaliates with artillery fire at Lebanon following cross-border shooting

 

[Flavour]

One kibbutz in particular seems to still be occupied by Hamas.

Numerous tower blocks in Gaza destroyed over night.

Lots of Hamas associated people being arrested in the West Bank.

The shelling in/from Lebanon looks very minor so far, a symbolic solidarity action.

 

[hitmouse]

I think they could go down a genocidal route. But I also don't think HAMAS would have done this if they weren't prepared for the response.

I think Hamas are prepared for the response, but I don't think that's incompatible with a huge amount of suffering being inflicted on Palestinian civilians.

 

[PursuedByBears]

Report of terrorists massacring festival attendees makes grim watching/reading

BBC News - 'They were going tree by tree and shooting' - Israeli partygoer describes festival attack https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67044787

 

[tim]

Sometimes I think it should be resolved the same way things are dealt with when my kids are fighting over a toy. “Right, none of you can have it” followed by confiscation. Maybe turn it into a giant nature reserve or a massive solar farm.

Si, you want Lebensraum for trees. What a fucking idiot you are.

 

[Aladdin]

Report of terrorists massacring festival attendees makes grim watching/reading

BBC News - 'They were going tree by tree and shooting' - Israeli partygoer describes festival attack https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67044787

Link not working for me..

 

[tim]

[

Report of terrorists massacring festival attendees makes grim watching/reading

BBC News - 'They were going tree by tree and shooting' - Israeli partygoer describes festival attack https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-67044787

In reality no less grim or wicked than the murder of people in their homes who get shelled by the Israelis. Or the attacks in and murder of Palestinians the West Bank murdered by setters.

 

[platinumsage]

I think Hamas are prepared for the response, but I don't think that's incompatible with a huge amount of suffering being inflicted on Palestinian civilians.

Hamas leaders can just carry on chillaxing in their palatial residences in Doha, although they may be looking over their shoulders in the coming weeks. I'm sure they give zero fucks about civilians in Gaza.

 

[PursuedByBears]

[

In reality no less grim or wicked than the murder of people in their homes who get shelled by the Israelis. Or the attacks in and murder of Palestinians the West Bank murdered by setters.

Oh, that's alright then

 

[Knotted]

I think Hamas are prepared for the response, but I don't think that's incompatible with a huge amount of suffering being inflicted on Palestinian civilians.

Gaza has been declared unlivable. They don't even have the choice of living on their knees, more a slow death. I'm not going to explain to them what their best interests are.

 

[teqniq]

This analysis piece in Haaretz is witheringly critical of Netenyahu but is otherwise very self-regarding:

Netanyahu’s Recklessness Has Brought War Upon Israel

 

[Flavour]

Netanyahu will still be fucked when all is said and done. This is the worst tragedy to befall Israel since 1973. And the government is responsible for the lack of readiness of the armed forces and the massive intelligence failure.

At least 300 Israeli dead so far.

 

[teqniq]

There's pretty much only one candidate for the role of assistance:

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Oh, that's alright then

No, it's not alright. One night of absolute horror for Israel, but remember what Palestinians have to put up with every single fucking day - and that still includes being thrown out of their homes, including by "settlers" from the US. While the rest of the world stands by and says nothing.

 

[Petcha]

Link not working for me..

Yeh not for me either but here's a pic from the same story.

This is the naked body of a 30yo German woman who was at the rave being paraded around on the back of a truck. Their PR could use a bit of work.

Spoiler: Heavily pixelated image behind spoiler here

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2023/10/08/09/76273695-12606553-Shocking_footage_shared_on_social_media_appears_to_show_Palestin-a-488_1696753903028.jpg

 

[Idris2002]

I've seen a couple of things suggesting that Hamas got their chance because the IDF is almost all deployed to the West Bank, to guard the settlements. For real?

 

[Spymaster]

Where does he suggest they go?

Somewhere else. Same with any refugees. Expect advice like this to be followed by massive air and artillery strikes. We ain't seen nothing yet.

Hamas are idiots. In a few months time the status quo will be restored except for a few thousand Palestinians dead and homeless.

 

[Flavour]

Petcha please put images like this in spoiler. Nobody needs to see that.

 

[Riklet]

Somewhere else. Same with any refugees. Expect advice like this to be followed by massive air and artillery strikes. We ain't seen nothing yet.

Hamas are idiots. In a few months time the status quo will be restored except for a few thousand Palestinians dead and homeless.

They can't leave though, can they.

I suspect this time the Israelis will not be able to fully take Gaza and will inevitably be brought to the negotiating table. Which is the end is what Hamas wants. At least in the short term. For that, heads will roll in Israel and Bibi is fucked.

edit Hamas spokeman saying today they don't target civilians. Hollow laugh after grim scenes from yesterday.

 

[Flavour]

I don't think we're going back to the status quo with Gaza after this.