Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Duncan2]

Yeh a fig leaf

"swamp- draining"

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Having visited the Gaza strip and Jerusalem, i would say

1) it is a clear Israeli policy to driveArabs out of Old Jerusalem

2) the Gaza strip is little more than an impoverished prison camp.

It is not for me to justify what Hamas has done, but asktwo simple questions, both of which will on this forum bring hellfire down upon me: but you know I am past caring. For they are important questions the mainstream media will not-ask:

1) if you discount the idea Hamas militants are intrinsically evil, what exactly is it that has driven them to do what they have just done?

2) if it is indeed right for Ukraine to resist military occupation of their land, why, exactly, is it wrong for Palestinians to do so?

(ducks incoming)

 

[Spymaster]

(ducks incoming)

Don't know why. Nothing you've posted there is particularly insightful or controversial. 'Palestinians have been fucked-over by Israel and are looking to strike back'. No shit?

The question is, is killing and capturing fuckloads of civilians the way to go about it?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Is it though? He’s painted himself as the strong man on defence, and yet it appears that there’s been a fairly massive Israeli intelligence fuck up on his watch.

It is. The divisions will be swept aside

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Having visited the Gaza strip and Jerusalem, i would say

1) it is a clear Israeli policy to driveArabs out of Old Jerusalem

2) the Gaza strip is little more than an impoverished prison camp.

It is not for me to justify what Hamas has done, but asktwo simple questions, both of which will on this forum bring hellfire down upon me: but you know I am past caring. For they are important questions the mainstream media will not-ask:

1) if you discount the idea Hamas militants are intrinsically evil, what exactly is it that has driven them to do what they have just done?

2) if it is indeed right for Ukraine to resist military occupation of their land, why, exactly, is it wrong for Palestinians to do so?

(ducks incoming)

1. Iran
2. Hamas are terrorist Ukraine aren’t not comparable

 

[Karl Masks]

1. Iran
2. Hamas are terrorist Ukraine aren’t not comparable

2. Hamas isn't the entirety of Palestine. Are the Palestinians, regardelss of their government, not allowed to defend themselves?

 

[Elohim]

The language BN is using is this is now a war (he even said it’s not an operation or escalation). This is the perfect gift for him given what’s been going on in Israel this last year..

Yes the language used could indicate a Palestinian massacre. Maybe nows the time Israel go full on .Just wish there was more of a peaceful solution to many deaths on both sides.

 

[likesfish]

Having visited the Gaza strip and Jerusalem, i would say

1) it is a clear Israeli policy to driveArabs out of Old Jerusalem

2) the Gaza strip is little more than an impoverished prison camp.

It is not for me to justify what Hamas has done, but asktwo simple questions, both of which will on this forum bring hellfire down upon me: but you know I am past caring. For they are important questions the mainstream media will not-ask:

1) if you discount the idea Hamas militants are intrinsically evil, what exactly is it that has driven them to do what they have just done?

2) if it is indeed right for Ukraine to resist military occupation of their land, why, exactly, is it wrong for Palestinians to do so?

(ducks incoming)

Ukrainians aren't targeting Russian civillians and kindnapping them that's not war that's terrorism, If you think shooting unarmed ravers is a legitimate act of resistance your actually part of the problem. It never works to get people back down it just makes them more likey to fight.
Holding 3rd world argicultural workers hostage is just stupid their of no value either to Israel or their governments

 

[Cid]

Would you use an affectionate term for thatcher, sunak or Tommy Robinson?

You mean Stephen Yaxley-Lennon?

 

[The39thStep]

Ukrainians aren't targeting Russian civillians and kindnapping them that's not war that's terrorism, If you think shooting unarmed ravers is a legitimate act of resistance your actually part of the problem. It never works to get people back down it just makes them more likey to fight.
Holding 3rd world argicultural workers hostage is just stupid their of no value either to Israel or their governments

Looking back at your posts I couldn't find any calls from you campaigning for military aid and arms to the Palestinians so that they can fight a war against the Israeli army that complies with your expectations. I'm sure the Palestinians would swap bombs in baskets for bombers , artillery and even NATO training.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Don't know why. Nothing you've posted there is particularly insightful or controversial. 'Palestinians have been fucked-over by Israel and are looking to strike back'. No shit?

The question is, is killing and capturing fuckloads of civilians the way to go about it?

You are missing my point: not very insightful of you

 

[Gramsci]

Ukrainians aren't targeting Russian civillians and kindnapping them that's not war that's terrorism, If you think shooting unarmed ravers is a legitimate act of resistance your actually part of the problem. It never works to get people back down it just makes them more likey to fight.
Holding 3rd world argicultural workers hostage is just stupid their of no value either to Israel or their governments

Ukraine Launches Rare Missile Strikes in Russia, Moscow Says

Kyiv did not take responsibility for the attacks, which could be a bid to broaden a war that has mostly rained ruin and death on Ukraine.

www.nytimes.com

Neither accepting nor denying responsibility for the explosions in Russia, Mykhailo Podolyak, a senior adviser to Mr. Zelensky, said that “everything happening in Russia, including Taganrog, is an unconditional consequence of the large-scale war initiated by Russia.”

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Ukrainians aren't targeting Russian civillians and kindnapping them that's not war that's terrorism, If you think shooting unarmed ravers is a legitimate act of resistance your actually part of the problem. It never works to get people back down it just makes them more likey to fight.
Holding 3rd world argicultural workers hostage is just stupid their of no value either to Israel or their governments

It is not for me to justify Hamas: I asked questions you have not answered

 

[Larry O'Hara]

1. Iran
2. Hamas are terrorist Ukraine aren’t not comparable

1. Help from Iran does not explain motivation rather than timing
2. Labels like terrorist are intended to avoiddebate. As here

 

[Artaxerxes]

Having visited the Gaza strip and Jerusalem, i would say

1) it is a clear Israeli policy to driveArabs out of Old Jerusalem

2) the Gaza strip is little more than an impoverished prison camp.

It is not for me to justify what Hamas has done, but asktwo simple questions, both of which will on this forum bring hellfire down upon me: but you know I am past caring. For they are important questions the mainstream media will not-ask:

1) if you discount the idea Hamas militants are intrinsically evil, what exactly is it that has driven them to do what they have just done?

2) if it is indeed right for Ukraine to resist military occupation of their land, why, exactly, is it wrong for Palestinians to do so?

(ducks incoming)

1) it’s shit when Israel kill maims and murder civilians 2) it’s shit when Palestine kills maims and murders civilians
3) its shit when Russia and Ukraine do it to
4) this conflict won’t end until the cycle of violence is broken, preferably by idk Israel acknowledging Palestinians right to exist and integration into Israel as equals and fellow men.
5) it probably won’t end until one side is destroyed through violence which is a grim and nasty outcome

 

[Spymaster]

Looking back at your posts I couldn't find any calls from you campaigning for military aid and arms to the Palestinians so that they can fight a war against the Israeli army that complies with your expectations. I'm sure the Palestinians would swap bombs in baskets for bombers , artillery and even NATO training.

This is a nonsense old trope though.

As if denying the Palestinians equivalent armament somehow legitimises shooting little girls through the head.

 

[The39thStep]

This is a nonsense old trope though.

As if denying the Palestinians equivalent armament somehow legitimises shooting little girls through the head.

Which of course dear Spymaster it doesn't

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Ready to donate money to a charity helping Palestinian casualties. While Israeli victims and casualties of this conflict will have access to excellent medical facilities and treatment, Palestinians will not.

 

[Rimbaud]

This is a nonsense old trope though.

As if denying the Palestinians equivalent armament somehow legitimises shooting little girls through the head.

It doesn't justify it, but it is silly to compare it to Russia and Ukraine. Hamas is realistically only capable of terrorist attacks and not of conventional warfare, the same is not true of the Ukrainian army.

Of course it doesn't justify the targeting of innocent defenseless civilians - ethics aside, this is highly unlikely to lead to any positive outcome for Gaza - but it does mean Ukraine isn't a valid comparison.

 

[Spymaster]

Which of course dear Spymaster it doesn't

Of course not. Which is why it’s not worth mentioning.

 

[Plumdaff]

Somewhere else. Same with any refugees. Expect advice like this to be followed by massive air and artillery strikes. We ain't seen nothing yet.

Hamas are idiots. In a few months time the status quo will be restored except for a few thousand Palestinians dead and homeless.

Refugees aren't usually subject to a blockade.

 

[TopCat]

I recollect the US/UK trying to put out a narrative in Iraq that all opponents were terrorists. I think they gave up in the end and went for insurgents.

 

[Spymaster]

It doesn't justify it, but it is silly to compare it to Russia and Ukraine. Hamas is realistically only capable of terrorist attacks and not of conventional warfare, the same is not true of the Ukrainian army.

Of course it doesn't justify the targeting of innocent defenseless civilians - ethics aside, this is highly unlikely to lead to any positive outcome for Gaza - but it does mean Ukraine isn't a valid comparison.

I agree that the comparison to Ukraine is fatuous but that was introduced by Larry O'Hara .

 

[Magnus McGinty]

My sympathies generally lie with the plight of the Palestinians but shooting unarmed kids, people at a festival and kidnapping the elderly isn’t a good look.

 

[A380]

It is. The divisions will be swept aside

I doubt it.

 

[TopCat]

“
Responding today while speaking to Al Jazeera, the senior Hamas spokesperson Osama Hamdan said his group was not attacking civilians.

“You have to differentiate between settlers and civilians. Settlers attacked Palestinians … We hope that Amnesty has humility to send us more developed weapons to attack only the soldiers,” he said, per Al Jazeera.

Hamdan claimed that civilians living across towns near the Israeli border with Gaza, which has long hemmed in more than 2 million people, could also be considered settlers, comparable to the hundreds of thousands of Israeli settlers living across Palestinian territories in the West Bank.

“We are not targeting civilians on purpose. We have declared settlers are part of the occupation and part of the armed Israeli force. They are not civilians,” he said.”

 

[Rob Ray]

There's a lot to be said about the way Israel has created and sustained Hamas, about the actual (pretty horrific) political agenda Hamas represents and exactly what all this means, but fuck me skimming today's left Twitter hot takes has reminded me that a) Jfc some of these people need to learn to take a beat the come up with something more nuanced before having an opinion splurge and b) The rhetorical whiplash going on by some of the cobweb left types from slagging support for Ukrainian resistance as basically supporting fascists and betraying No War But The Class War to excusing kidnap, human shielding and murder of civilians as justifiable resistance is a bit ...

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Maybe they looked at everyone’s papers at the music festival before executing them?

 

[TopCat]

There's a lot to be said about the way Israel has created and sustained Hamas, about the actual (pretty horrific) political agenda Hamas represents and exactly what all this means, but fuck me reading some of the left Twitter hot takes has reminded me that a) Jfc some of these people need to learn to take a beat the come up with something more nuanced before having an opinion splurge and b) The rhetorical whiplash going on by some of the cobweb left types from slagging support for Ukrainian resistance as basically supporting fascists and betraying NWBTCW to excusing kidnap, human shielding and murder of civilians as justifiable resistance is a bit ...

View attachment 394691

Did you really need a meme to explain and express yourself?

 

[Spymaster]

“
Responding today while speaking to Al Jazeera, the senior Hamas spokesperson Osama Hamdan said his group was not attacking civilians.

“You have to differentiate between settlers and civilians. Settlers attacked Palestinians … We hope that Amnesty has humility to send us more developed weapons to attack only the soldiers,” he said, per Al Jazeera.

Hamdan claimed that civilians living across towns near the Israeli border with Gaza, which has long hemmed in more than 2 million people, could also be considered settlers, comparable to the hundreds of thousands of Israeli settlers living across Palestinian territories in the West Bank.

“We are not targeting civilians on purpose. We have declared settlers are part of the occupation and part of the armed Israeli force. They are not civilians,” he said.”

‘These particular children are not civilians’