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Israel and hezbollah after the exploding pagers

Pickman's model said:
Tbh it's been a very zionist decision to avoid peace by giving the Palestinians the state they should have had years ago. People like Netanyahu thought they could have their cake and eat it. And now I reckon they've bitten off more than they can chew.
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I reckon your reckon is based on little more than wishful thinking.
 
Spymaster said:
... Trump will likely win soon and Israel will have the strongest backing from the US that they've ever had. Even if he doesn't win, US support is arguably at an all time high.
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I've recently heard trump's idea of "strong backing" and if a shortcut to WWIII is on your 2025 bingo card, then prepare to have it marked. Currently us support is frozen as the dems are terrified of rocking the boat too hard this close to the ge. However, recent statements by biden about suspicions of bibi trying to influence the outcome against the dems in the ge and Harris' noncommittal answer about the closeness of Netanyahu as an ally vs Israel as an important strategic partner hints at a possible chilling of us support should the dems retain the presidency under a different leadership.
The39thStep said:
Western Values

View attachment 445894
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Truly awe-inspiring analysis from a so-called expert of the region... a 14-year old edgelord could do better...
 
Nylock said:
I've recently heard trump's idea of "strong backing" and if a shortcut to WWIII is on your 2025 bingo card, then prepare to have it marked. Currently us support is frozen as the dems are terrified of rocking the boat too hard this close to the ge. However, recent statements by biden about suspicions of bibi trying to influence the outcome against the dems in the ge and Harris' noncommittal answer about the closeness of Netanyahu as an ally vs Israel as an important strategic partner hints at a possible chilling of us support should the dems retain the presidency under a different leadership.

Truly awe-inspiring analysis from a so-called expert of the region... a 14-year old edgelord could do better...
Click to expand...
If I was American whether republican, democrat or other I'd be really concerned about how an alleged ally was wagging the United States. The way it's supposed to work is the president says jump and people like the pm of Israel ask how high. Not the way the abominable Netanyahu is behaving, especially when the entire situation has been manufactured for his political survival. I'd recall the bombing of the marine corps barracks in Lebanon and want the US to stay out of what is a very unhappy war of choice, rather than necessity. And I'd be looking to strengthen and develop the Lebanese state, to make the east Mediterranean littoral more stable. The Lebanese came to a series of compromises, to share power in that unhappy land, which should be bolstered rather than undone. Nothing good for the us comes from the route they're on. Turkey is making bellicose noises, and for my money keeping them onside would be more important than allowing the zionists the freedom of action Biden has given them. Not that turkey is without serious issues itself, but given turkey's nato membership, the vulnerability of us bases in that country and the nuclear weapons it hosts, I'd want to see their concerns at least listened to.

But few Americans seem to have any notion of how they actually want the middle east to look in a month, a year, five years. The usg and our own hmg are tied into the wars in Yemen and Palestine and Lebanon and have made themselves the servants of Netanyahu, hostages to fortune in a war that can't end well and in which the zionists have shown themselves vicious racists with a collective penchant for genocide.

The way things have been supposed to work is the free world of the Americans and their allies work for human rights in contrast to their foes. And while that's never been really the case, it gave them a great moral superiority over eg the ussr and China. Yet now they're on the side of the devils and squandering what remains of their moral capital after Iraq and Afghanistan. And that's really not in their interests.

The conflicting application of international law in Ukraine and Palestine in the 'free world's approach to those two wars isn't something that only matters for a couple of years. The russians have used previous American adventures as partial justification for their own actions - if it was 'right' for the Americans to wage aggressive war for regime change in Iraq, why not in Ukraine? Why not in any other part of the world? Why not in Taiwan, which at least the Chinese have long said is a part of their country

The unravelling of international law in the conflicting approaches to Palestine and Lebanon, and Ukraine, will have severe repercussions for years. And at a time when we as a species need stability and international collaboration, we get instead spurious national interests trumping any humanity or enlightened self-interest to use e.e. smith's phrase
 
Pickman's model said:
If I was American whether republican, democrat or other I'd be really concerned about how an alleged ally was wagging the United States. The way it's supposed to work is the president says jump and people like the pm of Israel ask how high. Not the way the abominable Netanyahu is behaving, especially when the entire situation has been manufactured for his political survival. I'd recall the bombing of the marine corps barracks in Lebanon and want the US to stay out of what is a very unhappy war of choice, rather than necessity. And I'd be looking to strengthen and develop the Lebanese state, to make the east Mediterranean littoral more stable. The Lebanese came to a series of compromises, to share power in that unhappy land, which should be bolstered rather than undone. Nothing good for the us comes from the route they're on. Turkey is making bellicose noises, and for my money keeping them onside would be more important than allowing the zionists the freedom of action Biden has given them. Not that turkey is without serious issues itself, but given turkey's nato membership, the vulnerability of us bases in that country and the nuclear weapons it hosts, I'd want to see their concerns at least listened to.

But few Americans seem to have any notion of how they actually want the middle east to look in a month, a year, five years. The usg and our own hmg are tied into the wars in Yemen and Palestine and Lebanon and have made themselves the servants of Netanyahu, hostages to fortune in a war that can't end well and in which the zionists have shown themselves vicious racists with a collective penchant for genocide.

The way things have been supposed to work is the free world of the Americans and their allies work for human rights in contrast to their foes. And while that's never been really the case, it gave them a great moral superiority over eg the ussr and China. Yet now they're on the side of the devils and squandering what remains of their moral capital after Iraq and Afghanistan. And that's really not in their interests.

The conflicting application of international law in Ukraine and Palestine in the 'free world's approach to those two wars isn't something that only matters for a couple of years. The russians have used previous American adventures as partial justification for their own actions - if it was 'right' for the Americans to wage aggressive war for regime change in Iraq, why not in Ukraine? Why not in any other part of the world? Why not in Taiwan, which at least the Chinese have long said is a part of their country

The unravelling of international law in the conflicting approaches to Palestine and Lebanon, and Ukraine, will have severe repercussions for years. And at a time when we as a species need stability and international collaboration, we get instead spurious national interests trumping any humanity or enlightened self-interest to use e.e. smith's phrase
Click to expand...

I think whoever wins there will be a form of a reset in relations over there - Harris because of how he (Netanyahu) has been openly pissing in the chips of the US, and Trump because he has already been screwed over by Netanyahu once, has no further interest in elections and the Saudis have much more they can do for him anyway (and are much more likely to do it).

Plus of course the lobby has shown that it’s an entirely negative force - doing something for Israel (whether that’s recognition of the seizure of Jerusalem and the Golan, or leaping to their aid after the worst failure in their history) and exposing yourself thereby buys you nothing in the great scheme of things. There is no reason to cooperate with it except out of fear, and people tend to deal with things that provoke fear by getting rid of them.
 
The zionist regime again attempting to intimidate the UN (Irish) peacekeeping troops:

Moshe Tur-Paz, an Israeli MP, has said that there is nothing it can do if UN peace keeping forces on the border with Lebanon do not respond to its request to move for their own safety.

In an interview on public radio in Ireland, where the prime minister has expressed deep concern about the safety of the Irish troops on the so-called blue line, Tur-Paz said: “There is nothing I can do if someone wants to put his head in a lion’s mouth.”

He went on to say Unifil had “failed” to defend the Israeli citizens, but added that as a former soldier he knew the Israeli Defence Force would “know how to take care” and make sure UN soldiers were not hurt.
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Israeli forces fire on UN peacekeepers in Lebanon
UN. 10 October 2024
“UNIFIL’s Naqoura headquarters and nearby positions have been repeatedly hit,” the UN mission said in a statement. “This morning, two peacekeepers were injured after an IDF Merkava tank fired its weapon toward an observation tower at UNIFIL’s headquarters in Naqoura, directly hitting it and causing them to fall.

“The injuries are fortunately, this time, not serious, but they remain in hospital.”
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Spymaster said:
I don't. Any such deal would be very temporary. There will always be people who will attack Israel regardless of any deals done, and Israel will always be able to kill insane numbers of Palestinians in retaliation, as well as protect their borders from any game changing incursions.
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You don't feel the retaliation has been by the Palestinians, in the face of insane numbers of them that have been killed? And that this is the main reason there are people who attack Israel?
 
two sheds said:
You don't feel the retaliation has been by the Palestinians, in the face of insane numbers of them that have been killed? And that this is the main reason there are people who attack Israel?
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Kind of, but one of the most vociferous anti-Israeli posters on the boards, Topcat, is currently arguing for pragmatism on the part of Ukraine towards Russia.

I'm similar wrt the Middle East, but in this case it makes far more sense, in that the Palestinian people will undoubtedly, always be the losers.
 
Duncan2 said:
It's actually quite surprising that a country ( Israel) can remain a member at the UN and also be in the habit of targeting UN peacekeepers,as they admit, with tank shells and today live fire🤔
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I've long wondered this. for decades now its gone from ignoring UN Resolutions to actively seeking to undermine it and now physically attck UN positions.
I dont know if there actually is a legal mechanism to remove Israel from UN membership and often it seems that contracts written up for Nation states leave such mechanisms out.
But FFS to say something stinks about the way Israel behaves and how the rest of the world lets it do so is an understatement
 
_Russ_ said:
I've long wondered this. for decades now its gone from ignoring UN Resolutions to actively seeking to undermine it and now physically attck UN positions.
I dont know if there actually is a legal mechanism to remove Israel from UN membership and often it seems that contracts written up for Nation states leave such mechanisms out.
But FFS to say something stinks about the way Israel behaves and how the rest of the world lets it do so is an understatement
Click to expand...

There is, but...

Frequently asked questions

Frequently asked questions of the United Nations Office at Vienna
www.unov.org
Article 6 of the Charter reads as follows: "A Member of the United Nations which has persistently violated the Principles contained in the present Charter may be expelled from the Organization by the General Assembly upon the recommendation of the Security Council."
Click to expand...
 
Spymaster said:
Kind of, but one of the most vociferous anti-Israeli posters on the boards, Topcat, is currently arguing for pragmatism on the part of Ukraine towards Russia.

I'm similar wrt the Middle East, but in this case it makes far more sense, in that the Palestinian people will undoubtedly, always be the losers.
Click to expand...
Don’t quote or refer to
Me you right wing cunt.
 
www.theguardian.com

Israel orders more evacuations in Lebanon and threatens medics who treat Hezbollah members

Military spokesperson demands that medics ‘avoid dealing with Hezbollah operatives’ and claims ambulances used to transport weapons
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

Says IDF regard ambulances as potential targets. As Israel says they are being used by Hezbollah fighters as transport.

What the article does not explain is that due to parlous state of Lebanon it's left to different political groups to run basic services.

So some of the support for running ambulances comes from Hezbollah.

That's not a unique situation in Lebanon. Which is a borderline failed state.
 
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