Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

One of the reasons virtually every politician in the Anglosphere supports Israel is their belief that not doing so is electoral suicide. If convinced by lobbying that this is not the case, some of them may change their tune. Not many though, because most of them are bribed as well as intimidated.

How would you suggest gazans lobby anglosphere politicians atm?

 

[Ax^]

Humanity also includes the Jews and their well being. Until they feel truly safe and Iran funded groups like Hamas are gone the occupation will continue…

you mean when the Palestinians are gone

stop trying to word it differently

 

[Pickman's model]

Sorry but I have have little respect for Hamas same as I have little respect for the zionists.

The people I do respect are the civilians on both sides who are caught up in this.

Which is doubtless why you think one portion of them are subhuman

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Humanity also includes the Jews and their well being. Until they feel truly safe and Iran funded groups like Hamas are gone the occupation will continue…

Israel oppressed Palestinians and occupied Palestine long before Hamas existed.

 

[Pickman's model]

It was a horrible act that Hamas did. Can't call hamas sub human for doing this it upsets people.

I apologise for calling hamas sub-human. Didn't realise it would anger people on here.

The festival crowd were innocent civilians.

You weren't calling hamas subhuman...

 

[Bingoman]

Deleted

 

[Pickman's model]

Humanity also includes the Jews and their well being. Until they feel truly safe and Iran funded groups like Hamas are gone the occupation will continue…

The occupation started before hamas were established and being as the Palestinian authority is supposed to be at peace with the zionists a future after hamas doesn't look like peace with the zionists is more than slow war

 

[Pickman's model]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/world-middle-east-67108364?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=652c36e0364b3f1612ec5088%26Gaza%20should%20be%20smaller%20when%20this%20is%20over%2C%20Israeli%20minister%20says%262023-10-15T19%3A18%3A21.741Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:5d8ad0a6-7287-4595-93e5-c046a026b38a&pinned_post_asset_id=652c36e0364b3f1612ec5088&pinned_post_type=share

But what do you think?

 

[xenon]

Don't want to derail with lefty trainspotting stuff, but I've genuinely surprised by how much they are glorifying the attacks last weekend. I was a member for a bit as a student over a decade over and while I have a lot of criticisms of them, unqualified support for terrorism - including killing children - was not something I could imagine from them back then. Wtf is going on with them or has the world in general just gone mad?

Hate to break it to you but they’ve always been irrelevant nutters.

 

[Bingoman]

But what do you think?

I was trying do a link from the BBC website and it didn't work it was about what Israel want to do with the Northern part of Gaza

 

[Gramsci]

frogwoman started thread on Hamas on the philisophy section.

Thought I would look to see if there are any books specifically on Hamas.

There are several.

Started this one Hamas today.

Only read the introductions and already Hamas come across as more pragmatic and willing to change than I thought.

They made decision to stand in elections for the PA. Which was something in itself. The writer of the book argues that an historic opportunity was lost at that time. Hamas were moving to a position where they were prepared for talks as part of unity PA government.

This was spurned by the western powers. Also other Arab governments were not keen on seeing an offshoot of the Muslim Brotherhood succeed politically.

He brings up the Northern Ireland peace process and how something like that could have been used in Palestine/ Israel and wasn't. A lost oppurtunity.

One of the reasons Hamas won the elections to PA was there years of work helping the poorer Palestinians. Basically not being corrupt. The mainstream Fatah movement had got to used to being in power and neglecting their base. Something the secular historian Rashid Khalidi describes in his book the Hundred Years War on Palestine. In Lebanon the PLO leadership behaved in an arrogant and self entitled way. Living in nice house surrounded by bodyguards. The Hamas put a lot of effort into aiding ordinary Palestinians. Not being corrupt.

Secondly the so called peace process which Hamas had initially rejected was turning out to be not only a failure for ordinary Palestinians but counter productive to their interests. The second stage never happened.

Many Palestinians voted Hamas not because they supported its more religious aims but because it was not corrupt and it still was prepared to fight for Palestinian rights.

So Hamas are not just the same as ISIS. Nor are they just mad.

In the intro he points out their are tensions in Hamas between the military wing and the more political wing. If Im reading him right at this stage in book.

 

[RD2003]

You're right. Lobbying might embolden a few outliers, nothing more. Then again marching achieves even less. That's no reason not to do it I suppose, but nothing human beings can do will match the power of money.

It's amazing how many people fail to grasp that the Ukraine war, for example, is, at root, yet another money making scheme for the usual crew on both sides. Now the meat grinder is in motion yet again in the middle east. Where will it manifest itself after this?

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Amnesty International now verifying the attack on escaping civilians, already verified (by the BBC?). Then a further attack on the ambulances that turned up to help them. WTF?

 

[Raheem]

Humanity also includes the Jews and their well being. Until they feel truly safe and Iran funded groups like Hamas are gone the occupation will continue…

Or, until they end the occupation, Iran-funded groups such as Hamas are going nowhere.

 

[Bingoman]

Rafah crossing will reopen, US' Blinken says after meeting Egyptian president

US secretary of state says he had productive meeting with Egyptian leader al-Sisi in Cairo - Anadolu Ajansı

www.aa.com.tr

 

[Ax^]

It's amazing how many people fail to grasp that the Ukraine war, for example, is, at root, yet another money making scheme for the usual crew on both sides. Now the meat grinder is in motion yet again in the middle east. Where will it manifest itself after this?

of course Russian is not to blame for invading in the first place mind

damn nato

 

[Dystopiary]

It's amazing how many people fail to grasp that the Ukraine war, for example, is, at root, yet another money making scheme for the usual crew on both sides. Now the meat grinder is in motion yet again in the middle east. Where will it manifest itself after this?

You know the world won't end if you stop making digs at Ukrainians. If you can't deal with that maybe you could keep your misanthropic, offensive Ukrainophobia to relevant threads.

 

[RD2003]

You know the world won't end if you stop making digs at Ukrainians. If you can't deal with that maybe you could keep your misanthropic, offensive Ukrainophobia to relevant threads.

I've hardly posted in this thread, and only mentioned Ukraine in the thread's context.

And you know as well as I do that war is a money making racket. Who cares who dies or suffers when tomorrow we, the shitmunchers, anguish over yet another war, having all but forgotten what's hapening now?

 

[Ax^]

major part of this thread is people worrying about what happens to the civilian of Gaza to this point

you wander in talking about Ukraine and people making money from the war

only one side of this is being armed by the west and its not the palestinians

maybe stick to one conflict at a time

 

[A380]

major part of this thread is people worrying about what happens to the civilian of Gaza to this point

you wander in talking about Ukraine and people making money from the war

only one side of this is being armed by the west and its not the palestinians

maybe stick to one conflict at a time

He can’t because he’s，rightfully, banned from the main Ukraine thread…

 

[Johnny Vodka]

DJ/musician Nabihah Iqbal sharing out some very pro-Palestinian words on social media after attending one of the demos yesterday.

And her post seems to have disappeared. Doubt it would have been censored by FB, but maybe she felt she had to take it down herself.

 

[Serge Forward]

Don't want to derail with lefty trainspotting stuff, but I'm genuinely surprised by how much they are glorifying the attacks last weekend. I was a member for a bit as a student over a decade over and while I have a lot of criticisms of them, unqualified support for terrorism - including killing children - was not something I could imagine from them back then. Wtf is going on with them or has the world in general just gone mad?

From the people who brought you the "We are all Hamas" chant. The fucking cunts.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Jesus…

Six-year-old Palestinian-American boy killed in anti-Muslim hate crime, police say

Wadea Al-Fayoume was stabbed 26 times and 32-year-old mother more than 12 times in shocking incident

www.the-independent.com

 

[Kid_Eternity]

you mean when the Palestinians are gone

stop trying to word it differently

No I don’t. I mean Hamas. I’m talking about the reality of any negotiated settlement; whether we like it or not it’s not going to happen while BN leads Israel (and the reactionary religious right) and Hamas are still existing.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Israel oppressed Palestinians and occupied Palestine long before Hamas existed.

And the last time any negotiated settlement was on the cards was before Hamas took power.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Or, until they end the occupation, Iran-funded groups such as Hamas are going nowhere.

They’re not going to do that. We have to live in the real world. You’re talking about moral certainty not how power and politics operate. Only a negotiated settlement which both sides can agree to will end the occupation. Thats never going to happen while the current context exists.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

If the U.S. can and does veto stuff when it comes to Israel, it sounds like they have a lot to answer for.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

If the U.S. can and does veto stuff when it comes to Israel, it sounds like they have a lot to answer for.

Indeed. The great game continues…

 

[WhyLikeThis]

If the U.S. can and does veto stuff when it comes to Israel, it sounds like they have a lot to answer for.

You may find this useful: A history of the US blocking UN resolutions against Israel

…and this…

The 43 times US has used veto power against UN resolutions on Israel

Last year outgoing US president Barack Obama abstained, allowing a vote against Israeli settlements to pass

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[Raheem]

They’re not going to do that.

Then they're stuck with Hamas, even though they've finally worked out it's not such a great idea.

Or, maybe they're not stupid. It's possible.