You're right. Lobbying might embolden a few outliers, nothing more. Then again marching achieves even less. That's no reason not to do it I suppose, but nothing human beings can do will match the power of money.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
You're right. Lobbying might embolden a few outliers, nothing more. Then again marching achieves even less. That's no reason not to do it I suppose, but nothing human beings can do will match the power of money.
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
chilango
Hypothetical Wanker
If I was going to raise glib and abstract slogans I'd be calling for a "no state solution".
ska invita
back on the other side
A couple of years ago or so on urban there was an interesting conversation along the lines of Why Is The British Left So Obsessed With Palestine, and the case was made that it was a bizarre, unproductive and for some even anti-Semitic obsession.
I can't remember which posters were making that case the most, and I'm not interested in searching back to tag anyone or anything like that, but I wonder if anyone reading this who felt that then feels differently now, or not even.
I can't remember which posters were making that case the most, and I'm not interested in searching back to tag anyone or anything like that, but I wonder if anyone reading this who felt that then feels differently now, or not even.
That's true.
ska invita
back on the other side
This was a literal demonstration, demonstrating a segment of public opinion, one contrasting with the dominant media narrative, and has value for that reason
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Neither is the fence that you are struggling to sit on
PR1Berske
Alligator in chains by the park gates.
If forced to "take sides", then I just can't.
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
It’s not the “British Left” that’s “Obsessed” with Palestine. Globally, people often regardless of formal political positions disapprove of apartheid. More so, genocide. Here’s the UN voting results on Palestinians right to self determination.
This is basic human decency on show, not a niche political “obsession”.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
I went to a talk by a Kurdish bloke a few years ago, where he put forward the ideals of the Rojava Kurds, democratic federalism, secularism etc as a blueprint for other parts of the world, Middle East in particular. Maybe no-one will buy the ideas right now, but I don't think they are merely glib and abstract.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Just say that then
PR1Berske
Alligator in chains by the park gates.
This is a discussion thread on a messageboard. I can have my say
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
It’s history. You have to segment events to understand them and the context they exist in. Otherwise it’s just a gigantic narrative with no insight into the workings of how it operates.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Organised lobbying can be, but it’s very difficult under our present voting system.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
There’s a weird dynamic at work; this isn’t football, no one should feel pressured to pick a side because it’s exactly that mindset that fuels conflict. There’s no settlement via polarised positions…
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You can refuse to pick a side if you want, but you can't deny which side has all the power in this asymmetrical situation. You cannot deny which is the dispossessed people nor who dispossessed them. How can Israel arrive at a position from which it can negotiate a meaningful settlement without acknowledging these basic, obvious facts.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I couldn't pick a side in the other apartheid thing either and Nelson Mandela was a terrorist
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Depends which politicians (yeah sorry, seen your subsequent posts now)
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Yeah, but the Israelis and many of our own politicians would happily push a narrative in which the Palestinians don't suffer under occupation, apartheid and Israeli state violence (and that allowed by settlers), in which land isn't still being stolen, where this is T0 and nothing came before it. It's really important to constantly emphasise the context of this latest violence, especially as many people probably get their news in one minute bites (not on here obv).
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Interesting. So if all these countries support Palestinian self-determination, where's the push been to get this sorted?
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
I refer you to my previous post. The US has a veto on any action by the UN against Israel. This is why it’s futile to use the formal “democratic” process.
Where you need to start on this one is the blockade of Gaza. It's not just a restriction on movement and it is not Israel doing a "bad" that has provoked a cycle of violence, it is economic degradation that has kept the enclave on the brink of humanitarian disaster, mass unemployment, no prospects and abject desperation for 15 years. Non of the events we have witnessed in the past 8 days have anything to do with anything else including the broader Israel-Palestine conflict. Gazans were willing to march unarmed to the border under fire in 2018. That was where Gaza was at. Internationally they were getting forgotten, Arab governments were normalising with Israel. Doing nothing was not an option.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
So on one side you have Israel, USA, Micronesia, Nauru and the Marshall Islands...versus most of the rest of the world.
And yet here we still are.
Micronesia is a good one. Must have ties to the USA I don't realise. Russia threatened them, by name, early on in the Ukraine war. Probably felt the Marshall Islands had been bombed enough.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
The Israeli lot have been spending hard on this. Pro Palestinian vids with adverts featuring Netanyahu.
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
It's been an interesting afternoon seeing who's spending most tbh
cesare
shady's dreams ♥
Who/what is Micronesia? That big graph looks as though they all have equal votes.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
If you want to fence sit you can have that line.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
This battle started then.Stop using these inconvenient facts
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
2000 tiny islands you won't have heard of apart from Guam maybe, which definitely has US connections.
Yes they are equal votes. But the UN means shit with the vetos.
Yes maybe just need to work out what words are acceptable. But yes maybe was feeling bit too negative.
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