Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Idris2002]

This is the bit which is self-defeating, imv. For all her many faults AOC has spent the last five years quite loudly decrying Israel's behaviour and outright calling it apartheid. She's not someone with zero history other than criticising Hamas troops. But what she was saying about the rally is that it's not actually helping the aim of ending that apartheid if you parade around celebrating Hamas troops doing nasty shit. Which is not particularly contentious, it's obviously fucking stupid to celebrate acts of horror while trying to persuade normal people of your point of view

None of them are interested in what "normies" think, they're cheerleaders and LARPers.

 

[Gramsci]

Here's that McDowell piece, if anyone's interested.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/...ce-must-be-proportionate-RClawful-and-humane/

Notice that he also supports the banning of goods from illegal settlements. He linked this in his article.

Standing ovation as Seanad backs Bill banning Israeli settlement goods

Palestinian representatives applaud in visitor’s gallery as vote carried

www.irishtimes.com

Our government is putting in law to stop local authorities for example doing this. Or any other form of support of BDS

In the Irish republic the issue of Palestine is dealt with in a very different way to here

There are peaceful ways to support Palestinian rights. And our government is closing then down. Seems a Labour government under Starmer would also not supports boycotts

 

[Idris2002]

Notice that he also supports the banning of goods from illegal settlements. He linked this in his article.

Standing ovation as Seanad backs Bill banning Israeli settlement goods

Palestinian representatives applaud in visitor’s gallery as vote carried

www.irishtimes.com

Our government is putting in law to stop local authorities for example doing this. Or any other form of support of BDS

In the Irish republic the issue of Palestine is dealt with in a very different way to here

I just saw the Leo Varadkar, of all people, say that if it's wrong for Russia to target infrastructure in Ukraine, the same rule applies to Israel targetting Pal infrastructure!

There needs to be some caution here - one of McDowell's predecessors, Alan Shatter, who happens to be Jewish, got tons of anti-semitic hate mail on the regular.

It's "Republic of Ireland", by the way - we didn't kill all those people in the revolution just to be "the Irish republic".

 

[Knotted]

This is the bit which is self-defeating, imv. For all her many faults AOC has spent the last five years quite loudly decrying Israel's behaviour and outright calling it apartheid. She's not someone with zero history other than criticising Hamas troops. But what she was saying about the rally is that it's not actually helping the aim of ending that apartheid if you parade around celebrating Hamas troops doing nasty shit. Which is not particularly contentious, it's obviously fucking stupid to celebrate acts of horror while trying to persuade normal people of your point of view.

I am so sick if hearing people decry Israel. I don't care who you decry. This is not about winning Twitter.

 

[Rob Ray]

None of them are interested in what "normies" think, they're cheerleaders and LARPers.

I've no doubt most of them care deeply about the subject, but yes there is a powerful aspect of all this where people fail to take a step back and think "what am I actually presenting to the public here."

 

[TopCat]

If you read that you would think Gaza wasn't getting bombed into the stone age or had its electricity and water cut off. It's a carte blanche condemnation of anyone protesting a life and death situation for hundreds of thousands of people.

[I don't doubt there were some displays of anti-semitism at these protest. There usually is.]

Yeah a definite minus point for her

 

[Rob Ray]

I am so sick if hearing people decry Israel. I don't care who you decry. This is not about winning Twitter.

Obviously you do care who people decry, or you wouldn't be complaining. What you'd like to happen is for Israel, and only Israel, to be criticised for their actions. But the fact is not only is that not going to happen, it fucking well shouldn't.

 

[Petcha]

This is quite an astonishing little thing I saw on the guardian

The US does not currently have an ambassador to Israel as Republican politicians in Washington have so far declined to meet and approve Joe Biden’s nomination for the role, Jack Lew.

 

[Gramsci]

It's "Republic of Ireland", by the way - we didn't kill all those people in the revolution just to be "the Irish republic".

There are historical links between Palestine and Ireland . The Arab Revolt in 30s was put down using ex Black and Tans. Both got the full force of Empire - the dirty side of it- arrayed against them

 

[Knotted]

Obviously you do care who people decry, or you wouldn't be complaining. What you'd like to happen is for Israel, and only Israel, to be criticised for their actions. But the fact is not only is that not going to happen, it fucking well shouldn't.

I'm against criticism of Israel. What does it do? Everything is clear now. Electricity stopped, water stopped, indiscriminate bombing, arming militias. Criticism of Israel is now redundant, the rhetoric including AOC's now is that Israel is allowed a little genocide because of Hamas. The air has cleared, there is nothing more to say.

 

[kebabking]

This is quite an astonishing little thing I saw on the guardian

Turns out there's loads of it about - there's some loon US senator who sits on one of the committee's who has some beef with Biden who's using his position to stop people being 'confirmed'.

It's about a dozen (I think) ambassadors, Chief of Naval Operations, I think Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (I think) - to what degree it actually paralyses US government I don't know, it seems they just get the deputy to do all the actual work, but the 'relationship' stuff probably takes a bit of a beating.

Weird way to run a country...

 

[Rob Ray]

the rhetoric including AOC's now is that Israel is allowed a little genocide because of Hamas.

Jfc get a grip on yourself. Criticising Hamas for atrocities and telling people off for celebrating atrocities is a world away from saying "Israel is allowed a little genocide" ffs, how on Earth do you think this kind of overwrought toss is helping anything?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Both Labour and Tories here appear not to have a single word of solace for Palestinians. Starmer is a weasel.

The former human rights lawyer responded: "I think that Israel does have that right, it is an ongoing situation, obviously everything should be done within international law but I don't want to step away from the core principles that Israel has the right to defend herself."

Starmer did not elaborate on how collective punishment methods, such as the withdrawal of water supplies to a large urban area, could be done within international law.

Middle East Eye contacted the Labour's communications team to clarify its position on collective punishment. At the time of publication, it had not received a response.

Meanwhile, Corbyn manages to show a bit of straightforward human compassion.

The horrific attacks on civilians in Israel were deplorable. This cannot justify the indiscriminate killing of Palestinians, who are paying the price for a crime they did not commit.

How difficult is it to get that basic thing right?

Labour's Starmer backs Israel's 'right' to cut Gaza's power and water.

 

[Petcha]

Turns out there's loads of it about - there's some loon US senator who sits on one of the committee's who has some beef with Biden who's using his position to stop people being 'confirmed'.

It's about a dozen (I think) ambassadors, Chief of Naval Operations, I think Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (I think) - to what degree it actually paralyses US government I don't know, it seems they just get the deputy to do all the actual work, but the 'relationship' stuff probably takes a bit of a beating.

Weird way to run a country...

You'd think they might try to push the Israel post through a little bit quicksmart considering the entire middle east is about to erupt. Gotta be a way. Is it seriously just one guy blocking it all?

 

[likesfish]

AOC was right the Dick at the protest flashing a swatiska you'd like to think was a paid agent provecteur for mossad but he was just an anti semitic twat and fuckwits like that might as well be working for israel

 

[Elohim]

Hamas. Not Palestine.

Yes fair point

 

[Brainaddict]

I see Rivkah Brown has apologised for her 'celebration' tweet, correctly in my opinion. It was rather callous towards those caught up in violence through no fault of their own.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Both Labour and Tories here appear not to have a single word of solace for Palestinians. Starmer is a weasel.



Meanwhile, Corbyn manages to show a bit of straightforward human compassion.

And also, as I said earlier, the Scottish FM, the only UK party leader so far to give some sort of acknowledgement to Palestinian suffering. That's quite something.

But we know Humza & Jez will be labelled terrorist sympathisers.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And also, as I said earlier, the Scottish FM, the only UK party leader so far to give some sort of acknowledgement to Palestinian suffering. That's quite something.

But we know Humza & Jez will be labelled terrorist sympathisers.

I wonder what public opinion in Britain is like, though. The likes of the BBC are reporting what is happening in Gaza. It's not hard to understand that this is a collective punishment of innocent people.

 

[MickiQ]

Turns out there's loads of it about - there's some loon US senator who sits on one of the committee's who has some beef with Biden who's using his position to stop people being 'confirmed'.

It's about a dozen (I think) ambassadors, Chief of Naval Operations, I think Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff (I think) - to what degree it actually paralyses US government I don't know, it seems they just get the deputy to do all the actual work, but the 'relationship' stuff probably takes a bit of a beating.

Weird way to run a country...

Tuberville won’t bend on military blockade amid Israel crisis

After Hamas attacked Israel, Senate Democrats said it was past time for several top-level military nominees to be approved.

www.politico.com

It's this nutter all about abortion apparently

 

[Kid_Eternity]

The terror attacks may not prove as good a distraction as Netanyahu hopes.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

 

[Petcha]

Tuberville won’t bend on military blockade amid Israel crisis

After Hamas attacked Israel, Senate Democrats said it was past time for several top-level military nominees to be approved.

www.politico.com

It's this nutter all about abortion apparently

This is actually insane...

After Hamas attacked Israel, Senate Democrats said it was past time for several top-level military nominees to be approved. But a Tuberville spokesperson confirmed Sunday that the senator’s position remains: Democrats must move top nominees individually until the Pentagon revokes its policy of covering travel costs for troops seeking an abortion across state lines.

 

[The39thStep]

This is actually insane...

email them

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I wonder what public opinion in Britain is like, though. The likes of the BBC are reporting what is happening in Gaza. It's not hard to understand that this is a collective punishment of innocent people.

I was speaking to my boss about it yesterday. He actually understands the history going way back better than I do, and probably has roughly the same take as I do. I think news reporting in the UK is fair, certainly in the Guardian, ch4 news and bits of BBC Scotland I've caught. Friends and family of mine I've talked to seem to get the Palestinian struggle. But there is also the gammon media & thick cunts who think this conflict just started on Saturday.

 

[Knotted]

Jfc get a grip on yourself. Criticising Hamas for atrocities and telling people off for celebrating atrocities is a world away from saying "Israel is allowed a little genocide" ffs, how on Earth do you think this kind of overwrought toss is helping anything?

The Guardian report that she condemned the rally (by the Democratic Socialist of America who probably hold a range of views that mirror the views on U75) not elements of the rally and it reports her making general criticisms of the occupation ignoring the immediate reality of crimes against humanity being committed now. Protest crimes against humanity? We'll crack down on you. That's her message.

 

[Rob Ray]

Oh fuck off, this is nothing to do with what she's actually saying, this is you spinning to try and justify a shitty position. She's very clear in what she's criticising, and it's not the act of protesting crimes against humanity but the celebration of crimes against humanity. Honestly it's baffling to me that you think this stuff is helping the Palestinian position.

 

[Cid]

This is actually insane...

Yes, this is the state of US politics currently. It's a problem with systems that are designed/evolved within a particular cultural context... They rest on assumed shared values. Bit like our own parliamentary conventions. As soon as you get someone willing to exploit those systems and ignore those values, the flaws become obvious. But often those systems have been built to be hard to overturn, even if you overcome the inertia of belief in established institutions that e.g your average senator will have. And so US politics ends up where it is now.

But there are other threads for US politics, only really tangentially related to this.

 

[Knotted]

Oh fuck off, this is nothing to do with what she's actually saying, this is you spinning to try and justify a shitty position. She's very clear in what she's criticising, and it's not the act of protesting crimes against humanity it's the celebration of crimes against humanity. Honestly man it's baffling to me that you think this stuff is helping the Palestinian position.

But she's obviously lying about the reasons people are getting out onto the streets. Look, the position somebody takes on AOC neither helps nor hinders the Palestinian cause one iota. It's just concerning that people on here are falling behind some really dark forces.

 

[Knotted]

I guess Arabs should be grateful to Western politicians and intellectuals for their criticism of Israel.