Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[countingtozero]

True but i cant see how Gaza is ever going to be the base for any kind of Palestinian life again... I do not believe it will be rebuilt and Palestinians allowed to live there....not without a major shift in US politics..... I believe it will be slowly occupied by Israel and left as a death camp concentrated in the south in the meantime.......my point being that I cant imagine how Hamas are ever going to have a base to fight from again.

I hope you're wrong and that its future is not as a death camp. My suspicion is that there's no coherent plan/vision for Gaza underlying Netanyahu's action, it's back brain dominance.

As for Hamas, I was not celebrating the fact that they will recruit heavily from among the many new orphans, just observing a dismal fact in response to Frogwoman's question. A non-trivial percentage of the survivors will surely pledge themselves to fighting Israel. This is the insane myopia of Israeli government policy: they've built a doomsday device against their own state.

 

[ska invita]

I hope you're wrong and that its future is not as a death camp. My suspicion is that there's no coherent plan/vision for Gaza underlying Netanyahu's action, it's back brain dominance.

no that is absolutely what Netanyahu and his ilks vision is, I mean they've had conferences about it and made up computer graphics of what it will look when integrated into Israel....luxury hotels along the beach.....these are absolutely his people:

Turning Zeitoun into Shivat Zion: Israeli summit envisions Gaza resettlement

Undeterred by the ICJ, ministers and settler leaders promoted plans to expel Palestinians and ‘return’ Israelis to Gaza at a major conference in Jerusalem.

www.972mag.com

That doesn't guarantee that thats what will happen but at present it seems the most likely outcome to me.... even Benny Gantz the most likely successor to Netanyahu - sorry, the US favoured successor I should say - explicitly ruled out a two state solution again the other day so theres little reason to believe he would move in a different direction, but we shall see...

 

[frogwoman]

Yeah i think many in the Israeli government would like to kill all Palestinians tbh and they haven't thought much about what happens afterwards. So it being a doomsday device probably doesn't enter their heads tbh (apart from some 'prophecy' type shit for the more batshit of them)

 

[CNT36]

John Sawers, former head of MI6, was interviewed by Stewart/Campbell in April and said that it is reckoned that 60% of Hamas's armed wing are orphans. They won't have any problem replacing those who have been killed by the IDF.

Full show:

Best interviewers since Josef Goebbels and T E Larence did that series on the wireless.

 

[agricola]

Welcome back, liberated hostage!

An Israeli freed from Gaza returns to a Bedouin village targeted for demolition | The Associated Press

KHIRBET KARKUR, Israel (AP) — An Israeli hostage rescued from Gaza returned to a hero’s welcome tinged with a bitter reality: Much of the small

www.ap.org

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Fuck this shit, though I'd be surprised if Starmer has the balls to act against Israel anyway.

Special relationship at risk if UK bans arms sales to Israel, says Trump adviser

Robert O’Brien says UK could face US counter-embargos and put its role in F-35 fighter jet project in danger

www.theguardian.com

 

[frogwoman]

I know he's disliked by lots of people on here but Owen Jones has some really interesting videos about this topic. He interviewed a former Israeli soldier here and has interviewed Gideon Levy and Omer Bartov among others. The titles are a bit sensational but I'm surprised at how in depth and thorough the videos are tbh

 

[agricola]

Fuck this shit, though I'd be surprised if Starmer has the balls to act against Israel anyway.

Special relationship at risk if UK bans arms sales to Israel, says Trump adviser

Robert O’Brien says UK could face US counter-embargos and put its role in F-35 fighter jet project in danger

www.theguardian.com

A rare bit of honesty that - yes, you might have sucked up to us for years; yes we may have been allies in two world wars, one cold war and a host of smaller wars; yes you may want to uphold the international legal system that came out of the last world war; yes we are NATO allies but none of that matters to us. Israel will get everything before you do and if you take even the slighest action that they disagree with, we will punish you for it.

I would imagine we will exempt common programmes (like the F-35) but just not issue licences for anything directly traded.

 

[two sheds]

Four Palestinian journalists nominated for 2024 Nobel Peace Prize for fearless reporting

Nobel Peace Prize candidates shine a light on Gaza’s harsh realities

www.sinardaily.my

Four Palestinian journalists have been nominated for the 2024 Nobel Peace Prize in recognition of their fearless reporting during Israel's 10-month mass killing in Gaza, shedding light on the harsh realities of the ongoing genocide.


One of the nominees, Palestinian photojournalist Motaz Hilal Azaiza, known as Motaz Azaiza on his official social media account X (formerly Twitter), announced that he has been nominated for the 2024 Nobel Peace Prize.

"I have been nominated for the 2024 Nobel Peace prize ‘for giving the world an insight into the atrocities in gaza.’

"Wish me luck and I hope my people will get peace now. Free Palestine,” he wrote on Aug 23.

Before the Gaza genocide, Azaiza's posts highlighted the everyday life and beauty of Gaza.

However, his work gained global recognition during the mass killing in 2014 and 2021, as he began documenting the struggles of Palestinians. Despite the risks, Azaiza remained committed to revealing the truth through his lens, and his coverage of the 2023 conflict had a profound impact.

 

[teqniq]

Fuck this shit, though I'd be surprised if Starmer has the balls to act against Israel anyway.

Special relationship at risk if UK bans arms sales to Israel, says Trump adviser

Robert O’Brien says UK could face US counter-embargos and put its role in F-35 fighter jet project in danger

www.theguardian.com

That O'Brien guy is a complete arsehole.

 

[_Russ_]

Taoiseach: 'No consent sought' by Israeli arms shipment flight which crossed Irish airspace

The aircraft involved was a cargo plane which subsequently landed at Israeli airports. It is claimed that it made several flights carrying tonnes of ammunition and parts.

www.thejournal.ie

That Irish airspace was used by aircraft sending arms to Israel is only hard to prove in respect of obtaining the manifest for the military and contract aircraft involved, by law any carriage of weapons should be declared to the country that is being overflown, Im unsure if they need to state where it is going in the same declaration but of course there are flight plans submitted to ATC and border forces etc.
But it's a USA military operation, so disclosure and truth are hard to come by.

It's not hard to work out though

 

[teqniq]

FFS:

Israeli air strike on Gaza aid convoy kills five Palestinians

 

[Aladdin]

Micheál Martin orders Department of Defence to reject military contracts with Israel

Tánaiste Micheál Martin has ordered the Department of Defence to reject any tenders for military contracts from Israel.

www.independent.ie

Yesterday.
Tánaiste Micheál Martin has ordered the Department of Defence to reject any tenders for military contracts from Israel.
In a move which could put the Government at loggerheads with the EU, Mr Martin told officials not to award any defence or military contracts to Israeli companies due to the on-going bombardment of Gaza.
There is no EU embargo on Israeli military goods or services and Ireland’s decision to act unilaterally could lead to tensions with other member states.
Speaking on RTE Radio One’s News At One, Mr Martin said Ireland will “not be procuring military equipment or defence equipment or contracts with Israel”.

“I believe given the International Court of Justice (ICJ) advisory opinion and given what has transpired in Gaza, notwithstanding competencies and trade competencies and so on, I think in our view, looking at the ICJ’s advisory opinion, that is one area where I have given clear instructions to my officials on,” he said.

Mr Martin said the Israeli offensive on Gaza was targeting the region’s “entire population” rather than focusing on Hamas terrorists who unleashed carnage on south Israel in October last year.

“It’s no longer just a war against Hamas. I think we need to be clear about that and articulate that. And this type of modern warfare on an entire population, its infrastructure, its housing, its schools, waste management treatment centres is morally unacceptable and cannot be sustained,” he said.

“We need an immediate ceasefire in Gaza, and we need an immediate release of all hostages and humanitarian aid to get in there fast and in the right amounts, huge amounts.”

Mr Martin said Israel was moving into the West Bank and said this risked an escalation of tensions in the region.

The Tánaiste said there have been violations of the human rights clause in EU-Israel Association Agreement which Ireland has raised for some time.

He said the Government did not give any clearance for Israeli aircraft to fly over Irish airspace with military equipment.

Mr Martin said the Department of Transport was seeking to establish the facts around this could have happened.

 

[Gramsci]

I know he's disliked by lots of people on here but Owen Jones has some really interesting videos about this topic. He interviewed a former Israeli soldier here and has interviewed Gideon Levy and Omer Bartov among others. The titles are a bit sensational but I'm surprised at how in depth and thorough the videos are tbh

I do watch Owen Jones on and off. I'm fine with him.

He's got a lot of stick for his stance on Gaza.

Anyone who takes his view and is in the public eye is.

It could be just me but recently he's not looking well. Looks stressed out in recent videos.

 

[Gramsci]

The other reason why USA politicians hold back from criticism of Israel and actually doing something about it like supporting arms embargo is that the Israelii lobby like AIPAC will go after them if they do.

 

[two sheds]

wrong thread

 

[Gramsci]

Jamaal Bowman’s primary defeat leaves progressives angry at role of Aipac

Leftwing groups write to top House Democrat Hakeem Jeffries raising ‘dire concerns’ about pro-Israel lobby group

www.theguardian.com

AIPAC put serious money into getting rid of progressive democrats who are to critical of Israel for their liking.

If I was a politician in US I'd think twice if I was going to support Palestinians publicly.

I know Biden is a Zionist. But the lobbying by AIPAC can lead politicians being removed from power

There's pro Israel lobby in this country. But it's not on same level as USA

 

[Gramsci]

Read the Guardian article properly The one I posted in 13907

A summary of it in these quotes. They really went for the candidate Bowman full on attack.

“This race presented a clear choice – between George Latimer, who reflects the views of the Democratic mainstream in his congressional district and across the country, and his opponent, who aligns with the extremist, anti-Israel fringe,” an Aipac spokesperson, Marshall Wittmann, told Axios.

In a separate letter of protest, Jewish Voice for Peace Action said it was “saddened” by the results that had unseated a congressman who “has been one of the few members of Congress committed to defending Palestinian human rights”.

The progressive groups said that Aipac had “turned the NY16 race into the most expensive Democratic primary in history, waging an unacceptable assault on our democracy, our communities, and our shared future

This is the context in which USA progressive politicians have to operate.

It's not just about Biden.

When he goes these attacks- its more than just lobbying- on progressive politicians who support Palestinian rights will continue.

 

[nino_savatte]

I think BICOM wishes they had the clout of AIPAC, but thankfully, they don't. Instead, they churn out 'academic' articles through their journal, Fathom, and "train" journalists, like this one, and pay for them to go on all expenses paid jollies to Israel.

The CAA thinks it's the British equivalent of the ADL, but unlike that latter, they aren't as well established.

 

[Gramsci]

Welcome back, liberated hostage!

An Israeli freed from Gaza returns to a Bedouin village targeted for demolition | The Associated Press

KHIRBET KARKUR, Israel (AP) — An Israeli hostage rescued from Gaza returned to a hero’s welcome tinged with a bitter reality: Much of the small

www.ap.org

The Zionist project for years has been the Judaisation of the Negev.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20220412-palestinian-bedouins-warn-of-israeli-campaign-to-judaise-negev-desert-displace-them/

It's a bit like the West Bank. Gradual take over and replacement by Jews. Using so called legal measures. Or supposedly to help the Bedouin. It's part of the colonising of Palestinian land that's been going on since 48.

 

[frogwoman]

I think BICOM wishes they had the clout of AIPAC, but thankfully, they don't. Instead, they churn out 'academic' articles through their journal, Fathom, and "train" journalists, like this one, and pay for them to go on all expenses paid jollies to Israel.

The CAA thinks it's the British equivalent of the ADL, but unlike that latter, they aren't as well established.

Fathom is a weird one. They've published some okay stuff (that's not directly related to Israel). But yeah like Russia the Israeli state has a history of funding all sorts of political groups and think tanks etc. Some of which, again like Russian-funded outlets, publish semi decent stuff some of the time but I guess that's the point, if it was all 'a land without people for a people without land!!!!!' type bollocks all the time then it wouldn't be as influential as it is.

 

[nino_savatte]

Fathom is a weird one. They've published some okay stuff (that's not directly related to Israel). But yeah like Russia the Israeli state has a history of funding all sorts of political groups and think tanks etc. Some of which, again like Russian-funded outlets, publish semi decent stuff some of the time but I guess that's the point, if it was all 'a land without people for a people without land!!!!!' type bollocks all the time then it wouldn't be as influential as it is.

I've read one or two Fathom articles by Alan Johnson and David Hirsh. The latter tries to come across as reasonable, but in the process, makes a complete mess of whatever he's writing. The former is a serious headbanger.

 

[two sheds]

This is worth watching, suggesting that Israel is finally being asked relevant questions. Excellent BBC radio interview with Israeli spokesman from 2:28 and TV interview from 4:40, and James O'Brien having difficulty in places speaking describing some of what's going on based on Israeli TV reports from 12:06.



None of them even seem to mention the huge Palestinian deaths from Israel's attacks.

 

[frogwoman]

Do you have another link apart from 'the open minded thinker show'?

This is worth watching, suggesting that Israel is finally being asked relevant questions. Excellent BBC radio interview with Israeli spokesman from 2:28 and TV interview from 4:40, and James O'Brien having difficulty in places speaking describing some of what's going on based on Israeli TV reports from 12:06.



None of them even seem to mention the huge Palestinian deaths from Israel's attacks.

 

[two sheds]

ah no sorry - wasn't aware of them but I did wonder with the commentary. Those bits I marked though are just the interviews and O'Brien talking.

 

[Gramsci]

I think BICOM wishes they had the clout of AIPAC, but thankfully, they don't. Instead, they churn out 'academic' articles through their journal, Fathom, and "train" journalists, like this one, and pay for them to go on all expenses paid jollies to Israel.

The CAA thinks it's the British equivalent of the ADL, but unlike that latter, they aren't as well established.

Its not like the US here.

But some people have lost out.

Faiza Shaheen is example. The JLM went for her and succeeded

Faiza Shaheen’s “appalling and unfair” deselection

Faiza Shaheen’ story is of Labour choosing to sacrifice a winnable seat for factional advantage – to get rid of…

www.jewishvoiceforlabour.org.uk

Very able candidate with a lot to offer.

This local Labour Cllrs is still suspended from the Labour Group and that means he is unlikely to be re selected in a future local election.

Labour suspends Jewish councillor for voting for peace

Our Lambeth correspondent, KEN INGTON, on the latest scandal that threatens to cause ructions at Brixton Town Hall Labour has again outraged its own members for a purge of four councillors in Lambe…

insidecroydon.com

In both cases on the left of the party.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I see that Israel claims 6 hostages were murdered by Hamas just prior to being recovered. Hamas denies this, and says they were killed by Israeli bombing etc. Has anyone seen any actual data on just how much both sides lie? Obviously they both do, but is anyone anywhere attempting to monitor this over time, and not just in individual cases?

 

[Pickman's model]

I see that Israel claims 6 hostages were murdered by Hamas just prior to being recovered. Hamas denies this, and says they were killed by Israeli bombing etc. Has anyone seen any actual data on just how much both sides lie? Obviously they both do, but is anyone anywhere attempting to monitor this over time, and not just in individual cases?

I think it's safe to say that the side with the most power is the one that's most mendacious

 

[teqniq]

Hmmm, what now, Netanhayu?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

I think BICOM wishes they had the clout of AIPAC, but thankfully, they don't. Instead, they churn out 'academic' articles through their journal, Fathom, and "train" journalists, like this one, and pay for them to go on all expenses paid jollies to Israel.

The CAA thinks it's the British equivalent of the ADL, but unlike that latter, they aren't as well established.

But of course the CST are