Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
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frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Why researchers fear the Gaza death toll could reach 186,000
War doesn’t just kill people through direct violence. Malnutrition, healthcare shortages and unsanitary conditions inevitably follow
I'm sure this has already been posted but this is saying 8% of the population may die going by current trends. That's the equivalent of killing over 5 million in the UK
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Thing is. I'm not really sure what can make the IDF stop at this point. Clearly BDS and worldwide repulsion from its allies, damage to its economy, collapse of the tourism sector, threats from the international court, disgust from much of the worldwide Jewish community etc isn't really doing anything. BDS needs backed up with Russia style sanctions but even then it might backfire and make the government and its supporters even more aggressive than they're currently being.
ska invita
back on the other side
yeah thats the Lancets conservative estimate and a few weeks ago, v likely more, and what does it mean to be alive there right now... death is a technicality in many casesWhy researchers fear the Gaza death toll could reach 186,000
War doesn’t just kill people through direct violence. Malnutrition, healthcare shortages and unsanitary conditions inevitably followwww.theguardian.com
I'm sure this has already been posted but this is saying 8% of the population may die going by current trends. That's the equivalent of killing over 5 million in the UK
ska invita
back on the other side
The USA can
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I wonder how quickly they'd reconsider if army commanders were taken out one by one and shot
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Can they though? I thought the Israeli government more or less told Blinken to go fuck himself.
Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
Unless you consider the God you of this world to be Satan.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
They could do it by pulling funding. But it appears there is nothing Israel could do to make that happen.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
The truly annoying thing is that "their God" specifically tells them not to do this.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Exactly, purely anecdotally I think probably about 30-40+ % of UK Jews are anti zionists now (even though they might not put it like that) and the majority don't agree with how Israel is conducting the war. At least that's how it seems round here, I know elsewhere in the country it's different. A lot of people do still support them which is grim
ska invita
back on the other side
Theres so much they can do, myraid ways, US currently vetoing popular UN options, bring in international forces on the ground, global effort to resolve all border issues etc etc Stopping the arms sales etc is a blip for what could happen...the reason nothing is being done is not because Biden is bullied by Netanayahu, Biden has all the power here, the reason he's not doing anything is because he doesn't want to....
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Is he even aware of it tbh? Seems like he hardly knows what year it is
teqniq
DisMembered
Biden is a Zionist, in case anyone missed that:
ska invita
back on the other side
of course he is....the whole of the middle east is on the edge of all out war....amazed it hasnt kicked off yet considering how much israel is firing into neighbouring countriesIs he even aware of it tbh? Seems like he hardly knows what year it is
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
My point is that he might think of the Israel of several decades ago rather than today
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Biden of course has a long record as a massive supporter of Israel, including right through previous periods of intense criminality. And yes, it appears that no crime could be big enough to change that.
I mean he's said some extraordinary things in the past. KILL ALL CANADIANS!!!
EXCLUSIVE: In the ’80s, Joe Biden Speculated to Israel’s PM About Wiping Out Canadians
ska invita
back on the other side
Government at that level is full of advisors and briefings and experts and so on. He's fully aware. The bottom line is no one in the US and UK state gives a shit about dead Palestinians, not 20 not 200, not 200,000 not 2,000,000. They never have and they never will. When people call this genocide, thats what it is. And the US is effectively driving it and Israel is carrying it out and the UK is playing its supporting military role. And what can we do but watch.My point is that he might think of the Israel of several decades ago rather than today
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
Agreed. My point is that I don't think that Biden has all his mental faculties and even if he did, wouldn't be able to do anything anyway.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Earlier this year, Al Jazeera did a two-parter on Biden and Israel. Both parts are well worth reading. The first part concentrates on Biden and his role as a facilitator for Israeli interests. The second part examines the various motives for US support for Israel, which can be seen in some ways as a relic of the Cold War.
‘Defies logic’: The makings of Joe Biden’s ‘blank cheque’ to Israel
‘Strategic interests’, lobby power: What influences Biden’s Israel support?
The second part makes an interesting point about the shifting sands in the Democrat Party. The old Zionism represented by Biden is falling away. We can all see where Biden stands. How Harris handles that will be more interesting. Strikes me that she isn't an unquestioning Zionist like Biden.
‘Defies logic’: The makings of Joe Biden’s ‘blank cheque’ to Israel
‘Strategic interests’, lobby power: What influences Biden’s Israel support?
The second part makes an interesting point about the shifting sands in the Democrat Party. The old Zionism represented by Biden is falling away. We can all see where Biden stands. How Harris handles that will be more interesting. Strikes me that she isn't an unquestioning Zionist like Biden.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, from what I can tell, it's purely a political calculation for Harris, where it was clearly an ideological commitment for Biden. Politically I can see how this is tricky for Harris. Whatever position she takes, she will be alienating one group or another.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Sorry if this sounds appallingly cynical but, if she wins, it would make much more sense to unload everything atop Netanyahu, Smotrich and Ben Gvir's heads - claim to be someone who has Israel's best interests at heart, backed Israel in its hour of need etc etc but things cannot continue as they are with this leadership of failures, they have no idea how to restore Israel to peace and so on. It would be historically wrong but a lot easier to sell to the US public and the lobby (and Israel itself) than the alternatives would be.
I wouldn't be that surprised if Trump did something similar as well, especially to Netanyahu.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
There are plenty of people in Israel who are even more extreme than Netanyahu though.
frogwoman
No amount of cajolery...
‘My siblings have become my children’: the plight of Gaza’s orphans
Aid workers say the suffering of those who lost parents in the war is on a different scale to previous conflicts
Thousands of kids under 16 without parents or even family members at all.
remember reading similar stuff about Jewish communities devastated in WWII. how the fuck does anyone begin to recover from this.countingtozero
Active Member
John Sawers, former head of MI6, was interviewed by Stewart/Campbell in April and said that it is reckoned that 60% of Hamas's armed wing are orphans. They won't have any problem replacing those who have been killed by the IDF.‘My siblings have become my children’: the plight of Gaza’s orphans
Aid workers say the suffering of those who lost parents in the war is on a different scale to previous conflictswww.ft.com
Thousands of kids under 16 without parents or even family members at all.
Full show:
ska invita
back on the other side
True but i cant see how Gaza is ever going to be the base for any kind of Palestinian life again... I do not believe it will be rebuilt and Palestinians allowed to live there....not without a major shift in US politics..... I believe it will be slowly occupied by Israel and left as a death camp concentrated in the south in the meantime.......my point being that I cant imagine how Hamas are ever going to have a base to fight from again.
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