Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Gramsci]

On the Jewish Chronicle posted up by agricola more detail here

To those familiar with the Jewish Chronicle’s coverage in recent years, revelations that it has published inaccurate and politically motivated reporting will not come as much of a surprise. Following a murky takeover in 2020, the paper’s output and editorial tone — which was already right-wing — has become increasingly sensationalist under the stewardship of editor Jake Wallis Simons, who is a frequent guest on Britain’s biggest news and politics shows

Why did a British Jewish newspaper publish fake Israeli intelligence?

Israel’s army suspects fabrications published in the Jewish Chronicle were part of a pro-Bibi influence campaign, while the article’s author is not as he claims.

www.972mag.com

And this misinformation helps Netanyahu,

With allegations this spreading of misinformation comes from Netanyahu,

It was clear to me,” Eldar went on, “that this was a leak from the Israeli Prime Minister’s Office, which is manipulating the foreign press … to further tear apart Israel’s divided society and save Netanyahu from the intensifying protests.

In war misinformation and propaganda are going to be used

It's up to journalists to do best to safeguard against this.

The question is why did the Jewish Chronicle not do enough due diligence on this journalist. And his articles

As the 972 article shows a lot of the claims by the journalist about his life and work did not stand much scrutiny.

Perhaps given the right wing turn of Jewish Chronicle he was reporting what they wanted to hear.
.
This article shows the deep divisions in Israeli society.

Also shows Israeli security establishment aren't happy with Netanyahu either

 

[Gramsci]

Read somewhere if any of the west bank hard line settlers were taken hostage things would have been dealt differently by Netanyahu and his government.

I don't think Netanyahu cares about the hostages.

 

[agricola]

On the Jewish Chronicle posted up by agricola more detail here

Why did a British Jewish newspaper publish fake Israeli intelligence?

Israel’s army suspects fabrications published in the Jewish Chronicle were part of a pro-Bibi influence campaign, while the article’s author is not as he claims.

www.972mag.com

And this misinformation helps Netanyahu,

With allegations this spreading of misinformation comes from Netanyahu,


In war misinformation and propaganda are going to be used

It's up to journalists to do best to safeguard against this.

The question is why did the Jewish Chronicle not do enough due diligence on this journalist. And his articles

As the 972 article shows a lot of the claims by the journalist about his life and work did not stand much scrutiny.

Perhaps given the right wing turn of Jewish Chronicle he was reporting what they wanted to hear.
.
This article shows the deep divisions in Israeli society.

Also shows Israeli security establishment aren't happy with Netanyahu either

Not been a good couple of days for John Woodcock (who was part of that murky takeover, not sure he is still in the background of the JC though):

Partial, partisan and paper-thin: Walney's election abuse dossier examined

John Woodcock claimed there was a 'pattern of intimidation' of politicians by pro-Palestinian protesters - but relied on unreliable and partisan sources

www.middleeasteye.net

Imagine occupying a senior, presumably well-renumerated government post and producing a two page dossier on threats received during a General Election campaign. With information sourced from Twitter.

 

[two sheds]

Must admit I thought she was a goner

Pro-Palestine protester cleared of racial offence over ‘coconut’ placard

Marieha Hussain had denied her placard depicting Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman was racially abusive

www.theguardian.com

“Nearly a year on from the genocide in Gaza, and despite this trial, I’m more determined than ever to continue using my voice to defend Palestine.”

Clearing Hussain, the district judge Vanessa Lloyd said: “I find that it was part of the genre of political satire and, as such, the prosecution have not proved to the criminal standard that it was abusive.

“The prosecution has also not proved to the criminal standard that you were aware that your placard may be abusive.”

Giving evidence, Hussain said the placard was a “light-hearted piece of political banter”, a way to depict something serious in a “British satirical way”, the court heard.

In his closing speech, Rajiv Menon KC, defending, said: “This prosecution of Ms Hussain is … a disturbing attack on the right of freedom of expression; the right to peaceful protest that did not risk in any shape or form violence or public disorder; the right to anti-racists to criticise members of their own race for pursuing racist policies and using racist rhetoric; the right to satirise our politicians; the right to mock and tease and make fun of our politicians in a light-hearted way that Marieha Hussain attempted to do with her placard.

“That Marieha Hussain of all people is being prosecuted for a racially aggravated offence whilst the likes of Suella Braverman and Nigel Farage and Stephen Yaxley-Lennon – aka Tommy Robinson – and Frank Hester are seemingly free to make inflammatory and divisive statements … is, I’m afraid, incomprehensible to many people.”

The court also heard expert opinion on whether the term “coconut” was a racial slur.


Menon said experts struggled to see how the term could be capable of being a slur without “some qualifying word, behaviour, context” that racialises it.

“There is no racialising qualifier” in this case, he said.

He questioned why the prosecution did not produce an expert to say the term “coconut” was a racial slur and why they did not call someone who was offended by Hussain’s placard to give evidence.

The prosecutor, Jonathan Bryan, said the term was a “well-known racial slur which has a very clear meaning”.

“You may be brown on the outside, but you’re white on the inside. In other words, you’re a race traitor. You’re less brown or black than you should be.”

Not sure I can really comment but a racist saying it would be abusive, a non-racist saying it isn't necessarily. but sounds like court being bloody sensible.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Must admit I thought she was a goner

Pro-Palestine protester cleared of racial offence over ‘coconut’ placard

Marieha Hussain had denied her placard depicting Rishi Sunak and Suella Braverman was racially abusive

www.theguardian.com

Not sure I can really comment but a racist saying it would be abusive, a non-racist saying it isn't necessarily. but sounds like court being bloody sensible.

Yes. It's a ridiculous argument to have in a court, and it was an absurd prosecution. It's judging people by their race, so yes, it's kind of racist. But as you say, a court being sensible.

This bit is spot on:

That Marieha Hussain of all people is being prosecuted for a racially aggravated offence whilst the likes of Suella Braverman and Nigel Farage and Stephen Yaxley-Lennon – aka Tommy Robinson – and Frank Hester are seemingly free to make inflammatory and divisive statements … is, I’m afraid, incomprehensible to many people.

 

[nino_savatte]

Not been a good couple of days for John Woodcock (who was part of that murky takeover, not sure he is still in the background of the JC though):

Partial, partisan and paper-thin: Walney's election abuse dossier examined

John Woodcock claimed there was a 'pattern of intimidation' of politicians by pro-Palestinian protesters - but relied on unreliable and partisan sources

www.middleeasteye.net

Imagine occupying a senior, presumably well-renumerated government post and producing a two page dossier on threats received during a General Election campaign. With information sourced from Twitter.

I see "habibi" is cited in the MEE article. "habibi" has connections to the infamous Gnasherjew internet vigilante network. They're certainly not a reliable source.

Chris Rose (also cited) blocked me after I punched a few holes in one of his "arguments".

 

[PR1Berske]

LibDem backbench peer tables Palestine recognition Bill (with 0% chance of it becoming law)

https://bills.parliament.uk/bills/3771

 

[nino_savatte]

Freedland's seen the light, so to speak. However, the JC continues to be edited by Jake Wallis Simons, a writer of dubious fiction.


The execrable, Hadley Freeman, has also walked away.


Josh Glancy of The Times left last October and has cited some interesting reasons for doing so.

 

[agricola]

Freedland's seen the light, so to speak. However, the JC continues to be edited by Jake Wallis Simons, a writer of dubious fiction.


The execrable, Hadley Freeman, has also walked away.


Josh Glancy, of The Times, left last October and has cited some interesting reasons for doing so.

There is no sadder sight in modern journalism than the parade of hacks leaving a paper after it gets caught doing something that everyone knew it was doing for years beforehand.

 

[nino_savatte]

There is no sadder sight in modern journalism than the parade of hacks leaving a paper after it gets caught doing something that everyone knew it was doing for years beforehand.

I'd like to know where Woodcock and Waite got their money from to buy the JC. Neither of them are billionaires. Unless...

 

[teqniq]

I'd like to know where Woodcock and Waite got their money from to buy the JC. Neither of them are billionaires. Unless...

That is something quite a few people would like to know. The money person however remains unknown to this day.

 

[agricola]

That is something quite a few people would like to know. The money person however remains unknown to this day.

It doesnt have to be a person of course, indeed the secrecy would tend to suggest that it could well not be. The owners of British newspapers are not generally in the habit of being quiet about it, after all.

 

[teqniq]

It doesnt have to be a person of course, indeed the secrecy would tend to suggest that it could well not be. The owners of British newspapers are not generally in the habit of being quiet about it, after all.

With this in mind I was looking for this earlier to put in my reply to Nino's post. Helpfully Mr. Rusbridger has posted it again on Twitter:

Who really funds the Jewish Chronicle? Why it’s troubling that we don’t know…

Two years ago, a mysterious consortium came to the rescue of the beleaguered publication—and nobody is really clear about who is behind the scenes. But openness matters, especially when politics is involved

app.prospectmagazine.co.uk

 

[Gramsci]

JC "apology".

Conclusion of Jewish Chronicle investigation into Elon Perry

We were not satisfied with some of his claims

www.thejc.com

 

[Gramsci]

Yet does not stop them taking swipe at BBC

BBC’s reporting ‘at whim of individual journalists’

With no ‘targets for balance’ or way to hold staff to account, it cannot ensure impartiality, lawyer claims

www.thejc.com

 

[Gramsci]

I tried to watch this last night and could not get past the first ten minutes. Makes me livid what Zionist state of Israel thinks it can get sway with. And it can only do it with support of Western governments.

Made myself watch it this evening

Covers yet another IDF- I Don't give a Fuck- most moral army bomb yet another UNWRA school. Patiently the spokesperson from UNWRA explained this was a school sheltering refugees. It was also a vaccination centre. Israel state was told its GPS co ordinates and given all info.

Yet it bombed it. Also killing 6 UNRWA workers. Israel said it was doing targeted attack on Hamas.

The UNRWA spokesperson said even then international agreed rules of war apply. Targeting UNWRA school I this way is contrary to that.

The other two people on programme were less restrained.

At end the spokesperson for UNWRA give defence of what UNRWA has done over the years. Which is to help support the Palestinian people made refugees by Zionists.

That these people had rights under international law. That a proper peace where Palestinian peoples rights were respected is that answer. Right to return etc.

Seems to me the Zionist State no longer has any use for UNRWA. And now regards them as an impediment to long term wish of Zionism to remove Palestinian to make a Zionist state.

I also get from the programme that UN has role here. Even Western governments like our own cannot go all out too support Zionist state. Even if Lammy says he is a Zionist. As most Western governments at least give lip service to the post WW2 international order with UN in place

From the programme get the frustration of these Ex or present UNWRA officials that they are doing their job. That every three years their mandate is reaffirmed by UN yet they have been getting so much stick.

But when their workers are killed the Western governments reaction is muted. A few words and that is it.

Makes me think that Israel is not being unfairly targeted for its actions. On the contrary its been allowed to get away with taking Palestinian land away from them, occupying their land and gradually removing them with impunity. And now mass killing of civilians by a well armed IDF

As said in programme this impunity must stop.

 

[_Russ_]

I'd like to know where Woodcock and Waite got their money from to buy the JC. Neither of them are billionaires. Unless...

I'm unsure of your implication, could you just say who you suspect?
Do you mean the State of Israel itself?

 

[agricola]

According to reports in Israel, the Defence Minister (Gallant) is about to be fired as part of a political deal.

This is whilst they are still fighting in Gaza, and apparently about to attack Hezbollah (and Lebanon).

https://www.timesofisrael.com/netanyahu-said-preparing-to-fire-defense-minister-gallant-replace-him-with-saar/

 

[agricola]

Presumably the attack on Lebanon is about to begin then:

Scores of Hezbollah members hurt in Lebanon after pagers explode

Detonation of pagers is biggest security breach for group since war with Israel began last year, Hezbollah official says

www.theguardian.com

 

[teqniq]

Presumably the attack on Lebanon is about to begin then:

Scores of Hezbollah members hurt in Lebanon after pagers explode

Detonation of pagers is biggest security breach for group since war with Israel began last year, Hezbollah official says

www.theguardian.com

More on this from Charles Lister who speculates that there would have been a small amount of plastic explosives in the pagers as the explosions look too big for lithium battery overload:



also wrt to Lebanon:

 

[JimW]

More on this from Charles Lister who speculates that there would have been a small amount of plastic explosives in the pagers as the explosions look too big for lithium battery overload:



also wrt to Lebanon:

Struggling to see the mechanism that happens by, even if they were playing the long game. How do you get hundreds into the right pockets? Though perhaps the idea a targeted attack on a particular model producing these results without explosives is even scarier.

 

[teqniq]

Struggling to see the mechanism that happens by, even if they were playing the long game. How do you get hundreds into the right pockets? Though perhaps the idea a targeted attack on a particular model producing these results without explosives is even scarier.

Seeing on Twitter that they are all the same model pagers - Apollo. E2a also that Hezbollah decided that they would issue everyone with pagers as they were concerned that phones could be hacked so they probably bulk bought the pagers and if as seems likely explosives were involved then the supply chain would have been infiltrated.

 

[JimW]

Suppose if you have a double agent in Hezbollah procurement, it becomes easier.

 

[_Russ_]

I havnt seen footage of them exploding but either way they would have to have been prior tinkering with the devices as there isnt normally a facility to remotely short the battery through a conducter that could carry enough amps to make the battery explode, it would just burn out the conducting circuits required for a pager long before the battery went bang and they are quite tiny cells anyway.
You only really see accidental Lithium cell fires either when charging or the device they are powering gets a short through a hefty chunk of conducter
will be interesting to see what companies are inolved in making and supplying these pagers

eta...or you perform my usual demonstartion of the dangers and drive a nail through the cell

 

[kebabking]

Struggling to see the mechanism that happens by, even if they were playing the long game. How do you get hundreds into the right pockets? Though perhaps the idea a targeted attack on a particular model producing these results without explosives is even scarier.

Hezbollah is, in effect, a state - it buys its stuff in the same kind of way and in the same quantities as a state does. They'll have bought thousands of pagers from X supplier to dish out to their people - and whomsoever just made sure that they were able to offer the best deal.

Buy 100, get 50 free! Longer battery life! Each pager comes with 10g of plastic explosive free!

Interesting that Iranian TV is saying they their ambassador in Beruit had one, and 'suffered injuries' when it went off.

 

[Bingoman]

where these pagers tampered with before they reached their destination?

 

[planetgeli]

8 dead in Lebanon, 7 in Syria. Thousands injured. 10 year old girl among the dead.

This will end badly.

 

[teqniq]

where these pagers tampered with before they reached their destination?

What do you think?

 

[teqniq]

Meanwhile in Gaza:

 

[UnderOpenSky]

where these pagers tampered with before they reached their destination?

One hell of a supply chain attack.