Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Riklet]

Ah this is the Americans pushing Israel for a limited response to the Golan Heights rockets from Hizbullah. I am honestly surprised. As ever, nothing good can come from this.

All in all it just shows the crazyness that was unquestionably supporting Israel after October 7 attacks and emboldening them to do whatever the fuck they want with no consequences.

 

[_Russ_]

USA will talk about limiting Israels actions whilst simultaneously upping supplies of arms and financial support

 

[Duncan2]

USA will talk about limiting Israels actions whilst simultaneously upping supplies of arms and financial support

Wonder what their source of white phosphorus is-they appear to have a lot

 

[_Russ_]

Wonder what their source of white phosphorus is-they appear to have a lot

Me too ..https://corruption-tracker.org/blog/behind-the-smoke-the-unlawful-use-of-white-phosphorus

 

[SpookyFrank]

Wonder what their source of white phosphorus is-they appear to have a lot

Israel doesn't use white phosphorus, as they've told everyone numerous times.

 

[_Russ_]

Israel doesn't use white phosphorus, as they've told everyone numerous times.

Exactly, Israel never lies , not like this bunch of chancers....Evidence of Israel's unlawful use of white phosphorus in southern Lebanon as cross-border hostilities escalate

 

[krtek a houby]

From the Guardian

"Al Jazeera are reporting that two of its journalists have been killed in an attack on the Gaza Strip. The Qatar-based broadcaster has named them as Al Jazeera Arabic journalist Ismail al-Ghoul and his cameraman Rami al-Rifee. It has not shared any further information."

 

[Knotted]

The assassination of Ismail Haniyeh looks like it is going to provoke Iran into retaliation which I think is predictable. The last time there seemed to be some horse trading between Israel and the Americans, they went into Rafah but didn't strike back at Iran. I really have no idea whether it will escalate into war with Iran this time.

 

[krtek a houby]

The assassination of Ismail Haniyeh looks like it is going to provoke Iran into retaliation which I think is predictable. The last time there seemed to be some horse trading between Israel and the Americans, they went into Rafah but didn't strike back at Iran. I really have no idea whether it will escalate into war with Iran this time.

The new President will be under a huge amount of pressure to get some sort of retaliation in. It's grim and it feels like the entire region is on a precipice . Again.

 

[Knotted]

The new President will be under a huge amount of pressure to get some sort of retaliation in. It's grim and it feels like the entire region is on a precipice . Again.

If it goes over the brink it's going to be bad for all sides. Possibly devastating for all sides.

 

[agricola]

The assassination of Ismail Haniyeh looks like it is going to provoke Iran into retaliation which I think is predictable. The last time there seemed to be some horse trading between Israel and the Americans, they went into Rafah but didn't strike back at Iran. I really have no idea whether it will escalate into war with Iran this time.

I think the one thing that might hold the region back from the brink is the clear intent that these acts display from the Israeli government, ie: to kick things off now. Not doing something right away allows them (the Iranian government) to claim they are showing restraint (which they would be), whilst also continuing the demolition process of what remains of the international support that Israel enjoys. The EU and UK are already clearly heading in the direction of loosening of ties as it is and continued incidents like this will only speed that process up.

Of course the downside is that the Israeli state will keep trying to start a war until it is restrained by international efforts, or starts one.

 

[Knotted]

I think the one thing that might hold the region back from the brink is the clear intent that these acts display from the Israeli government, ie: to kick things off now. Not doing something right away allows them (the Iranian government) to claim they are showing restraint (which they would be), whilst also continuing the demolition process of what remains of the international support that Israel enjoys. The EU and UK are already clearly heading in the direction of loosening of ties as it is and continued incidents like this will only speed that process up.

Of course the downside is that the Israeli state will keep trying to start a war until it is restrained by international efforts, or starts one.

Iran has to respond and in a way that's also restrained. It's a delicate balancing act. Hizbollah seems to have screwed up with that strike on those Druze kids (though it could have been an Israeli misfired rocket) but that hasn't plunged them into all out war. I don't think there will be all out war with either Iran or Hizbollah if America isn't prepared to give full backing to Israel on that adventure. But then who knows what America is prepared to do when push comes to shove...

 

[Aladdin]

I think the one thing that might hold the region back from the brink is the clear intent that these acts display from the Israeli government, ie: to kick things off now. Not doing something right away allows them (the Iranian government) to claim they are showing restraint (which they would be), whilst also continuing the demolition process of what remains of the international support that Israel enjoys. The EU and UK are already clearly heading in the direction of loosening of ties as it is and continued incidents like this will only speed that process up.

Of course the downside is that the Israeli state will keep trying to start a war until it is restrained by international efforts, or starts one.

I think your analysis is spot on.

 

[Gramsci]

The first part of the Novara media I posted up earlier was about David Lammy and other front benchers being questioned in Parliament about Gaza. NM had footage of questions and replies.

Specifically arms sales:

Lammy said they are still looking into this. And it takes time. Procedures have to be followed and you cannot expect him to rush things.

Secondly the ICJ ruling that the Occupation by Israel of the occupied territories is illegal. Hardly a suprise to those who follow the history but the legal situation Israel always argued was not clear cut. This ruling is important as it rejects that argument.

The answer to MPs who raised this and asked in light of ruling what would the government do was the following:

It's a complex issue and the ruling is 90 pages long and we have not had a chance to read all of it and come to any decisions. We need more time to read it.

This after the Labour leadership line in election was that ICJ and ICC should be allowed to make rulings without interference and Labour party supports these international institutions and the rule of law.

As the commentator said on NM the Labour leadership know that their position on Gaza cost them votes and they are taking a softer line now.

Ie its not now Israel has a right to defend itself and cut off water etc.

But looks to me what they are doing as said on NM is keep kicking hard decision making into the long grass. This will make no one happy.

 

[Gramsci]

So this government is going to take a different tone but in actuality not much of a different line.

I don't except for example the march on Saturday being called another Hate march by this government.

 

[Gramsci]

The local community who suffered the bombing reject Israel government trying to use it politically.

Residents of occupied Golan Heights reject Israeli calls for retaliation

In a statement, Majdal Shams residents object the shedding of a 'single drop of blood' in the names of the 12 children killed in weekend attack

www.middleeasteye.net

US officials have been referring to this occupied area as Northern Israel.

 

[_Russ_]

Has there been any official confirmation that Hajj Habib Zadeh, (Iranian revolutionary guard top brass) has been assassinated in Syria?


ETA....Now some hours after Initial rumours and nothing so I suspect (hope) its bollox

 

[teqniq]

Has there been any official confirmation that Hajj Habib Zadeh, (Iranian revolutionary guard top brass) has been assassinated in Syria?

Charles Lister has deleted the tweet I posted on the other thread about that and he has now tweeted this:

 

[agricola]

The first part of the Novara media I posted up earlier was about David Lammy and other front benchers being questioned in Parliament about Gaza. NM had footage of questions and replies.

Specifically arms sales:

Lammy said they are still looking into this. And it takes time. Procedures have to be followed and you cannot expect him to rush things.

Secondly the ICJ ruling that the Occupation by Israel of the occupied territories is illegal. Hardly a suprise to those who follow the history but the legal situation Israel always argued was not clear cut. This ruling is important as it rejects that argument.

The answer to MPs who raised this and asked in light of ruling what would the government do was the following:

It's a complex issue and the ruling is 90 pages long and we have not had a chance to read all of it and come to any decisions. We need more time to read it.

This after the Labour leadership line in election was that ICJ and ICC should be allowed to make rulings without interference and Labour party supports these international institutions and the rule of law.

As the commentator said on NM the Labour leadership know that their position on Gaza cost them votes and they are taking a softer line now.

Ie its not now Israel has a right to defend itself and cut off water etc.

But looks to me what they are doing as said on NM is keep kicking hard decision making into the long grass. This will make no one happy.

It could be, but the 2-4% of me that still tries to think positive things about them believes that is / was a deliberate message to the Israeli government - ie: we are at this point in the road, change course so we don't have to.

Obviously that point has been ignored now and so hopefully we will all of a sudden find that they've read the ruling and are now going to comply with it. If HMG are genuine about wanting a genuine negotiated peace then this is the only remaining way it will ever happen now, short of a unconditional victory for one side or the other.

 

[agricola]

The local community who suffered the bombing reject Israel government trying to use it politically.

Residents of occupied Golan Heights reject Israeli calls for retaliation

In a statement, Majdal Shams residents object the shedding of a 'single drop of blood' in the names of the 12 children killed in weekend attack

www.middleeasteye.net

US officials have been referring to this occupied area as Northern Israel.

IIRC Trump recognized the Golan as Israeli, and Biden hasnt rescinded that.

 

[Gramsci]

I don't really know much about this guy but could he be right? It seems to me that there is a possibility with every new excess and atrocity that the writing is on the wall and it is a matter of not if but when:

Israel Is Already Over

What is left is contaminated memories, apparitions and foreign interests

alonmizrahi.substack.com

He is an Israeli

Ob this I think he is spot on:

don’t want to exaggerate Netanyahu’s role in Israel’s demise. I will only say this: his role relates more to quantity and pace, not to essence. Because, in essence, Zionism has been tainted with racism, colonialism, and anti-humanism from the very first moment. But it always had this duality where, while scheming and committing crimes against humanity, some part of it still wanted to belong in the civilized world. Paradoxically or not, that part, the classic liberal Ashkenazi Zionists, were responsible for Zionism’s greatest crimes in all the decades leading up to the current genocide

The what he calls are the classical Zionists are those who came from a David Ben Gurion Labour Zionism background. When the public image was building a democratic socialist state.

It was also under Labour Zionism that West Bank was occupied. And they had no intention of going.

And yes these people where the ones who built this state on back of mass expulsions of Palestinians and stealing their land. Which historically cannot be refuted now.

 

[Gramsci]

It could be, but the 2-4% of me that still tries to think positive things about them believes that is / was a deliberate message to the Israeli government - ie: we are at this point in the road, change course so we don't have to.

Obviously that point has been ignored now and so hopefully we will all of a sudden find that they've read the ruling and are now going to comply with it. If HMG are genuine about wanting a genuine negotiated peace then this is the only remaining way it will ever happen now, short of a unconditional victory for one side or the other.

As far as I can gather ICJ rulings are advisory.

It's up to States to push for them to be followed up

What concerns me is that instead of saying this is a ruling we will back up they are fence sitting.

International law works a bit differently from individual state law.

It requires states to make a political decision to go out and back up ruling in the international arena. Like the UN.

That it looks to me this government is going to be loathe to do.

When asked specific intelligent questions by backbench MPs the front bench just said its complex.

 

[Gramsci]

Was it this complex when it came to Ukraine? I don't think so

 

[Karl Masks]

What are the chances of a major strike from iran? They responded last time, after the consulate bombing in Damascus, but that wasn't designed to do as much damage as it appeared

 

[agricola]

This UNSC meeting is horrifying. You'd think, judging by the statements from the US and UK, that 40000 Palestinians died spontaneously.

 

[Gramsci]

Yes UK statement goes on about the "endless cycle of violence", the "humanitarian situation in Gaza", "support Israels right to defend itself"

The UK is deeply concerned by the escalation of tensions in the Middle East: UK statement at the UN Security Council

Statement by UK Permanent Representative to the UN Ambassador Barbara Woodward at the UN Security Council meeting on the situation in the Middle East.

www.gov.uk

Going out and killing people who you are supposed to be negotiating with is hardly sign of being serious about talks.

And imo the ongoing occupation of Palestinian land is a major factor in destabilising middle east..

That is not addressed in this.

Reiterating a two state solution without saying how is meaningless.

 

[Pickman's model]

Yes UK statement goes on about the "endless cycle of violence", the "humanitarian situation in Gaza", "support Israels right to defend itself"

The UK is deeply concerned by the escalation of tensions in the Middle East: UK statement at the UN Security Council

Statement by UK Permanent Representative to the UN Ambassador Barbara Woodward at the UN Security Council meeting on the situation in the Middle East.

www.gov.uk

Going out and killing people who you are supposed to be negotiating with is hardly sign of being serious about talks.

And imo the ongoing occupation of Palestinian land is a major factor in destabilising middle east..

That is not addressed in this.

Reiterating a two state solution without saying how is meaningless.

I think many of us are tending toward supporting a streamlined 2 state solution with only 1 state

 

[yield]

Not sure if this is already posted?

Hezbollah confirms a top commander was killed in Israeli strike in Beirut
AP. August 1, 2024

BEIRUT (AP) — The Lebanese militant group Hezbollah confirmed Wednesday that Israel killed a top commander after a rare strike in Beirut.

The Iran-backed group said earlier that Fouad Shukur was in the building during the attack on Tuesday, and they were searching for him in the rubble to determine his fate.

Hezbollah’s announcement came after an overnight strike in Tehran that killed Hamas leader Ismail Haniyeh, which Hamas and Iran blamed on Israel.

Israel said late Tuesday that it had killed Shukur, who it said was behind the weekend rocket attack in the Israeli-occupied Golan Heights that killed 12 youths. The United States also blames Shukur for staging and planning a bombing of a Marine Corps barrack in Lebanon in 1983 that killed 241 American service members.

The Lebanese Health Ministry said at least five civilians — two children and three women — died in the strike in a busy neighborhood where Hezbollah has political and security operations.

 

[Idris2002]

I think the one thing that might hold the region back from the brink is the clear intent that these acts display from the Israeli government, ie: to kick things off now. Not doing something right away allows them (the Iranian government) to claim they are showing restraint (which they would be), whilst also continuing the demolition process of what remains of the international support that Israel enjoys. The EU and UK are already clearly heading in the direction of loosening of ties as it is and continued incidents like this will only speed that process up.

Of course the downside is that the Israeli state will keep trying to start a war until it is restrained by international efforts, or starts one.

I'm afraid that the more Israel feels like its getting pushed into a corner, the more likely it is to resort to the Samson option. . .

 

[ID47]

As far as I can gather ICJ rulings are advisory.

It's up to States to push for them to be followed up

What concerns me is that instead of saying this is a ruling we will back up they are fence sitting.

International law works a bit differently from individual state law.

It requires states to make a political decision to go out and back up ruling in the international arena. Like the UN.

That it looks to me this government is going to be loathe to do.

When asked specific intelligent questions by backbench MPs the front bench just said its complex.

Article is spot on.