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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

I've never heard of British oppression for oppressions sake however all sorts of cruelties were perpetrated because of their exploitation and rapacious greed. The British Empire was nothing more than a cash cow. I have no doubt that many of the worlds present problems are down to British colonial rule. The British even had a hand in Palestine's present problems.
 
I can't agree Britain was not into the oppression game but rather bleeding it's colonies dry.

Do you actually read this thread?

I do not agree with mojo pixy on a lot but when Mojo says Israel behaves more like its mentor Britain I totally agree with Mojo

And its an issue I've posted up about more than once on this thread based on the reading I've done since this all kicked off in Gaza. Plus the reading I did before. As I set myself the task of reading more on British Empire in light of BLM.

I've posted more than once that Zionists who run Israel have not only learnt from British but some of the law and methods have been directly transferred from the Mandate period.

Imperial policing / counterinsurgency

The British so called Emergency regulations.

Things like Collective punishment of communities / house demolitions are straight out of British manuals of how to put down revolts.

On a slight tangent Imperial eccentrics like Orde Wingate. Thrown up during the late Imperial period provided unorthodox training to Zionist paramilitaries. Which to this day Israel state recognises.

Plus there is the issue of the Balfour declaration.

The historical argument is about whether Zionism was supported in Imperial period as a "little Ulster" ( that is how Zionist lobbyist presented it) so British Empire could have a European outpost in a sea of Orientalism to defend its strategic links with India.

Myself I think , on basis of British Empire , this was a strategic mistake. British should never have agreed the Balfour declaration. It stored up trouble for Empire and was founding block or what is happening now.

I think what you mean is that a settler colonial regime is different from a purely colonial one.

Which it is.

Also that settler colonialism is more violent to indigenous people than straightforward colonialism.

This is definitely what Matthew Hughes says in his history of the putting down of the Palestinian revolt in the 1930s.

Its why , except for off the wall eccentric like Orde Wingate, British tried to make sure Zionist volunteers were kept in background. And the imperial policing was done by regular British troops.

Matthew Hughes says Imperial Britain had learnt from its mistake and that how it ran and policed Empire changed over time.

This was not the case for those on whose homes were at stake.

The worst oppression was not , according to Matthew Hughes , in suppressing indigenous by imperial policing. But by those who are settlers.

In Kenya he says this in Mau Mau rebellion.

The British in Mandate period simply wanted some elite group of Palestinians to support them. The double bind the British Empire put itself in was the imo big mistake of the Balfour declaration.

The normal process of British Empire to get local elites to support Empire in exchange for keeping there privileges fell apart when Britain stupidly offered the land to Zionist settlers.

And then found at different times it had to show support for Arab population. As in run up to WW2.

For the record , based on my reading, Zionism is a form of settler colonialism/ State of Israel founding act was ethnic cleansing and Western powers ( Britain and US ) have given this state practical and diplomatic support.

And still do. My countries history towards this part of the world is shameful.

Zionism in practice ( the Labour Zionist and Revisionist Zionist versions) are racist towards Palestinian people.
 
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Do you actually read this thread?

I do not agree with mojo pixy on a lot but when Mojo says Israel behaves more like its mentor Britain I totally agree with Mojo

And its an issue I've posted up about more than once on this thread based on the reading I've done since this all kicked off in Gaza. Plus the reading I did before. As I set myself the task of reading more on British Empire in light of BLM.

I've posted more than once that Zionists who run Israel have not only learnt from British but some of the law and methods have been directly transferred from the Mandate period.

Imperial policing / counterinsurgency

The British so called Emergency regulations.

Things like Collective punishment of communities / house demolitions are straight out of British manuals of how to put down revolts.

On a slight tangent Imperial eccentrics like Orde Wingate. Thrown up during the late Imperial period provided unorthodox training to Zionist paramilitaries. Which to this day Israel state recognises.

Plus there is the issue of the Balfour declaration.

The historical argument is about whether Zionism was supported in Imperial period as a "little Ulster" ( that is how Zionist lobbyist presented it) so British Empire could have a European outpost in a sea of Orientalism to defend its strategic links with India.

Myself I think , on basis of British Empire , this was a strategic mistake. British should never have agreed the Balfour declaration. It stored up trouble for Empire and was founding block or what is happening now.

I think what you mean is that a settler colonial regime is different from a purely colonial one.

Which it is.

Also that settler colonialism is more violent to indigenous people than straightforward colonialism.

This is definitely what Matthew Hughes says in his history of the putting down of the Palestinian revolt in the 1930s.

Its why , except for off the wall eccentric like Orde Wingate, British tried to make sure Zionist volunteers were kept in background. And the imperial policing was done by regular British troops.

Matthew Hughes says Imperial Britain had learnt from its mistake and that how it ran and policed Empire changed over time.

This was not the case for those on whose homes were at stake.

The worst oppression was not , according to Matthew Hughes , in suppressing indigenous by imperial policing. But by those who are settlers.

In Kenya he says this in Mau Mau rebellion.

The British in Mandate period simply wanted some elite group of Palestinians to support them. The double bind the British Empire put itself in was the imo big mistake of the Balfour declaration.

The normal process of British Empire to get local elites to support Empire in exchange for keeping there privileges fell apart when Britain stupidly offered the land to Zionist settlers.

And then found at different times it had to show support for Arab population. As in run up to WW2.

Unfortunately I had neither the time nor stamina to read over 13,400 posts. Have you read all of them and do you remember all of them?
 
Unfortunately I had neither the time nor stamina to read over 13,400 posts. Have you read all of them and do you remember all of them?

On urban learnt its better to stick to a few threads. And concentrate on them. So yes I have followed most of posts here on this thread.

I do skip some of the bunfights. Don't have time for that.

Basically what Im saying is that its possible to be anti zionist without lapsing into being anti semitic

But this requires some deal of attention to the detail of the history.
 
Just seen that a John Dobson is giving a talk at The Wharf in Tavistock today at 2 p.m. "A Journalist's view of Israeli politics". Anyone got any idea what he is like?
 
I've never heard of British oppression for oppressions sake however all sorts of cruelties were perpetrated because of their exploitation and rapacious greed. The British Empire was nothing more than a cash cow. I have no doubt that many of the worlds present problems are down to British colonial rule. The British even had a hand in Palestine's present problems.
Ignorance on stilts. You overlook the violent and totalising nature of colonialism.

Educate yourself.
 
Seems there is a media storm re two Delta Airline flight attendants wearing Palestinian broaches ("pins" they call them in America apparently) on their uniforms.
Naturally this has become a spat over "antisemitism" vs freedom of expression for unionised airline staff in America - becuase once a complaint was made Delta changed their uniform policy to only allow American pins.
One assumes therefore that a MAGA pin would be fine.
 

Go Zarah!

No chance! The UK is definitely not going to upset its closest ally.
 
Fuck the BoD



I think the Board of British Deputies has made a mistake.

Yes UNRWA and UNHCR are different. And its an anomaly.

UNWRA is specifically for Palestinians

My understanding is that if the Palestinians came under UNHCR part of its remit is also finding a solution to whatever the refugee problem is. Which is not what I would have thought the State of Israel wants. A UN agency badgering them for a solution. Ie right to return.

The problem for pro Zionist Jewish organisations like the Board is that the Zionists outsourced the refugee problem they created to international organisations to deal with.

Cost free ethnic cleansing.

Even some Zionists at in earlier periods saw that criticising UNWRA was not a good idea. Like Moshe Dayan.

It's only more recently that State of Israel and their Zionist supporters outside Israel see UNWRA as a problem.

For them UNWRA has outlived in usefulness to Zionism

It's one factor that long term has helped Palestinian society sustain itself over the years.

So now UNWRA is a problem. As its helps perpetuate Palestinians.

The unsaid thing in what the Board of Deputies of British Jews state is that they would like to see the back of the Palestinians.
 
I fully expect them to completely ignore this but still:


View attachment 434009

View attachment 434008

.pdf of the ruling here:


Good ruling.

I would disagree with PLO spokesperson calling this a Judaization. As to me that can make it appear a Jewish political project. As Netanyahu and other Zionists would argue. Historically its Zionism which is to blame for what has happened in West Bank.

It is a political project based on turfing out the indigenous people to replace them with ones own.

And not all Jews support that.

The first decade of the occupation was under Labour Zionism. Not the Revisionist Zionism of the present lot who run Israel.

Even then once occupied the Labor Zionists had no intention of leaving.

Though some did believe in land for peace. The Allon plan for example. In Labour Zionist period. So large strategic parts would go for Zionist settlement and other parts would be under Palestinian or Jordan control.

The land for peace option resurfaced during the so called peace talks.

It from the Israel view was to extend the homeland. ( East Jerusalem was illegally annexed early on) With less strategic enclaves for Palestinians.

State of Israel view on West Bank was that it was exceptional case under international law.

After 48 it had been occupied by Jordan. Only two countries recognised this extension of Jordan state. UK being one.

So State of Israel legal argument after 67 was that were not occupying another states land.When looking at it from international law perspective. State of Israel said legally calling it an occupation was arguably. Under international law it was special case.

A grey area.

The general State of Israel position over the years was that given this grey area they would discuss final borders of State of Israel as part of a long term land for peace process.

Which in their view was agreed at much later peace talks.

So from Israel states view I would have thought they would argue that ICJ have missed on the complex nature of this land dispute. Which goes back to days of mandate and the Jordan annexation. Which was not accepted internationally.

Underneath this was both Labour Zionism, the first ten years of occupation, and later Revisionist Zionist governments not wanting to leave the land that they saw as Jewish homeland.

Which is why Zionists always refer to occupied West Bank as Judea and Samaria.
 
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Wonder if the ruling will make much difference to US and UK policy towards Israel? I doubt it.

Now Starmer is PM he is going to have to say something. As UK has links with Israel state carrying over from last government. So he is going to have to say what this government view is

Previously he has said that he would support international bodies like ICC and ICJ. And its up to them to make rulings.
 
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