Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Kid_Eternity]

This is going to lead to mass

Going to be difficult to enforce the flag ban. Especially with thousands doing it on demo's. Who's going to do the paper work.

Can’t see how that’s enforced nor do I agree that’s the way to approach this.

 

[LDC]

Without stating the obvious are you going to reply about what you think the next steps to peace might be or are we still at the 'this is terrorism' stage ?

I think we're at the it's all fucked there's no realistic and good solution for anyone that's alive at the moment.

 

[Pickman's model]

In think my position is completely worthless, but at least it's not throwing political criticism and principles out of the window which is arguably damaging to a wider political project?

We've been down this road of answering questions with questions and as I'm sure you know it advances things not a jot

 

[LDC]

We've been down this road of answering questions with questions and as I'm sure you know it advances things not a jot

I think my position is completely worthless, but at least it's not throwing political criticism and principles out of the window which is arguably damaging to a wider political project.

There you go, ftfy.

 

[The39thStep]

Still at the phase where people defend beheading babies

Ok pal

 

[Dystopiary]

I have seen footage of dead children in Gaza yes - I saw a film, certainty indicating that it was in Gaza, in the last day of a man holding a dead child. He was singing to her through wracking sobs, and brushing her hair with his hands. They were covered in her blood, and he used the backs of his hands, which were cleaner, with absolute tenderness.

I saw something that might have been a clip of that on twitter linked to from this thread last night.

I'm going to disagree with this, although I - obviously - understand how grim it is, and the effect it can have on the viewer.

For me, to refuse to watch someone's pain, or fear, or death is to deny their humanity to some extent. I may not be able to bring them confort, but I can bare witness to their suffering, and the value of their life as a life. It is - to me - to turn aside. It's to say 'this is to horrible to watch', while that person doesn't watch it, but endures it.

I'm not going to deny the effect it has on other people who think differently, and it's just my personal view - but refusing to watch this stuff sits uncomfortably with me.

I get what you're saying but there should be a "this footage contains..." kind of warning.

This sort of stuff can screw with people's mental health. People who've been through extreme violence, sexual assault or kidnap/hostage situations or other trauma can be really triggered by it (and it's shit how that word's often used now to mock and belittle them) and it's not necessary to force it on people.

Where the line should be drawn in reporting I don't know.

 

[Pickman's model]

In think my position is completely worthless, but at least it's not throwing political criticism and principles out of the window which is arguably damaging to a wider political project.

There you go, ftfy.

No you haven't. In think is no way to open a post which you claim to have fixed. Should it be 'I think', 'I'd think', or is it intended to be incoherent?

 

[The39thStep]

I think we're at the it's all fucked there's no realistic and good solution for anyone that's alive at the moment.

It’s depressing, I agree . However it doesn’t mean that scenarios shouldn’t or couldn’t be discussed if only to move this thread in a bit . I’ll come back to the question at another time .

 

[planetgeli]

Interesting split screen on Al-Jazeera. 3-way. Biden talking about full backing for Israel (literally, we have your back) against these 'atrocities' as screen 2 shows live missiles exploding in Gaza and screen 3 shows Palestinian babies being loaded into morgues.

 

[Dystopiary]

By contrast.

View attachment 394965

Have you got a link for that?

 

[Ax^]

Still at the phase where people defend beheading babies

*snipped

still a.phase were people want to post death picture on urban

 

[Petcha]

The tactic of slaughtering children is obviously deliberate but I don't know what the fuck their end game is with it. Anyone who has seen the pictures can not possibly support their actions. The shots of toddlers caged in what appear to be rabbit cages are bad enough. The beheaded ones. What the fuck are they doing? Fine, capture the soliders and do what you want with them. But a full room of 3yo kids?

And no I don't think the images should be censored, people should know what these fuckers are currently doing.

 

[Pickman's model]

By contrast.

View attachment 394965

But it will be

 

[Knotted]

I think everybody who has looked at this conflict (from the outside) has gone through a "condemn both sides equally" phase and a "don't let extremists continue the cycle of violence" phase or a "it's all hopeless" phase and maybe a "workers internationalism not nationalism" phase and possibly "it's all about about religion innit" phase. Some may still be in one of these phases (and maybe for good reason, I'm not prejudging), but non of them are unobvious and non of them require much discussion, everybody understands them.

 

[LDC]

The tactic of slaughtering children is obviously deliberate but I don't know what the fuck their end game is with it. Anyone who has seen the pictures can not possibly support their actions. The shots of toddlers caged in what appear to be rabbit cages are bad enough. The beheaded ones. What the fuck are they doing? Fine, capture the soliders and do what you want with them. But a full room of 3yo kids?

And no I don't think the images should be censored, people should know what these fuckers are currently doing.

Polarise much of the world into one of two camps over this? Hope it drags Iran and the US into confrontation, and then Russia?

 

[Ax^]

hmm country starving a population of 2.4 million and about to go in with tanks


but their all baby killers


some people cannot see past propoganda
hmm no dead baby's in Gaza when the bombs drop or tanks roll over a house of course

 

[Pickman's model]

The tactic of slaughtering children is obviously deliberate but I don't know what the fuck their end game is with it. Anyone who has seen the pictures can not possibly support their actions. The shots of toddlers caged in what appear to be rabbit cages are bad enough. The beheaded ones. What the fuck are they doing? Fine, capture the soliders and do what you want with them. But a full room of 3yo kids?

And no I don't think the images should be censored, people should know what these fuckers are currently doing.

I think what you're getting at is they've out heroded herod, to use Edgar allan poe's phrase. We're very used to news of zionists killing children but not so used to people many of us have supported for many years doing the same.

 

[JimW]

Could this be a moment when the security through grinding Palestine and technology line loses some prestige in Israel and a political solution gets back on the agenda? Realise it doesn't look likely now but as the dust settles and netanyahu pays the price for his failure?

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Have you got a link for that?

It's from The Guardian article I posted earlier.

US opinion divided amid battle for narrative over Hamas attack on Israel

Groups express opposing views over root cause of the attack, alongside differences over whether Gaza is still occupied

www.theguardian.com

 

[not a trot]

Some real scumbags in this world. Heard a family interviewed on BBC Breakfast this morning. They described how they locked themselves in a safe room, and had to endure the sound of their dog burning to death.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Still at the phase where people defend beheading babies

JFC, that certainly seems to confirm they have beheaded babies and toddlers.

I don’t think outsiders have any right to dictate what is appropriate for Palestinian resistance. The idea that there is acceptable resistance and unacceptable resistance is farcical and completely hypocritical.

Are you reconsidering your position now?

 

[kebabking]

Could this be a moment when the security through grinding Palestine and technology line loses some prestige in Israel and a political solution gets back on the agenda? Realise it doesn't look likely now but as the dust settles and netanyahu pays the price for his failure?

I'd like to believe that, but every time there's a failure that gets rightly blamed on an ever harsher policy, the policy gets harsher.

I don't see a solution. Just more muddling through, more blood spilled, no improvement.

 

[Dystopiary]

[snip]

And no I don't think the images should be censored, people should know what these fuckers are currently doing.

That means more people are going to avoid the news altogether which is worse.

Why do you think people who've experienced really horrible things should be forced to watch other really horrible things in order to have an idea what's happening? Are journalists so lacking in journalism skills that they need to show gore porn for people to understand the news?

 

[Dystopiary]

It's from The Guardian article I posted earlier.

US opinion divided amid battle for narrative over Hamas attack on Israel

Groups express opposing views over root cause of the attack, alongside differences over whether Gaza is still occupied

www.theguardian.com

Thanks.

 

[donkyboy]

Until I get independent assessment of all these so called "butchering" by Hamas, I don't believe a word of it coming from Israeli government. It's in their best interest to blow (no pun intended) this up. I'm happy to be part of the international independent assessment team.

 

[cesare]

That means more people are going to avoid the news altogether which is worse.

Why do you think people who've experienced really horrible things should be forced to watch other really horrible things in order to have an idea what's happening? Are journalists so lacking in journalism skills that they need to show gore porn for people to understand the news?

People that post non-spoilered gore porn should question why they are inflicting it, giving the recipients no choice.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I think what really pisses me off now is the international community and how it hasn't forced the two sides into a solution that respects the security and dignity of both. (Probably a very naive statement, I know.)

 

[cesare]

I think what really pisses me off now is the international community and how it hasn't forced the two sides into a solution that respects the security and dignity of both. (Probably a very naive statement, I know.)

You mean, like they should have done with Ireland?

 

[Johnny Vodka]

You mean, like they should have done with Ireland?

I could agree with that.

 

[cesare]

I could agree with that.

I wasn't saying that I thought they should have. I was just applying that thinking to somewhere nearer home and wondering how well that would have gone down. Not well I think and that's before you start exploring what you mean by "international community".