Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Elohim]

No, I don't think the catholics will gain from it

Mass deaths

 

[tim]

This is going to lead to mass

Going to be difficult to enforce the flag ban. Especially with thousands doing it on demo's. Who's going to do the paper work.

It wouldn't be legal, anyway.

 

[Dystopiary]

Can we just not post them? There's no need.

Exactly.

 

[Ax^]

It's not healthy to watch videos of killing anyway.

I'm not endorsing it but spent enough time on the internet not here to know it out their and some people curiosity get the better of them

people on both side of arguement trying spread propaganda one way other or the other

but aye watching killing or aftermath videos are not good for your soul or your mental health

 

[Ax^]

one last thing (long way down):

[]snip]

Bild is der Deutsche equiv of the Sun, btw.

ffs spoiler that or don't post it

can go to the mail if I want to see her used to encourage bloodshed

 

[Orang Utan]

I'm not endorsing it but spent enough time on the internet not here to know it out their and some people curiosity get the better of them

people on both side of arguement trying spread propaganda one way other or the other

but aye watching killing or aftermath videos are not good for your soul or your mental health

It’s not just the explicit violence that we could do without seeing. I saw some footage of some people being abducted on The Guardian website that I wish I could unsee and unhear. There was no warning either. The desperation and fear and dread on their faces will stay with me forever.

 

[Pickman's model]

Mass deaths

You're the bright spark pointing out the fucking obvious after maybe 2000 people have died

 

[Elpenor]

It’s not just the explicit violence that we could do without seeing. I saw some footage of some people being abducted on The Guardian website that I wish I could unsee and unhear. There was no warning either. The desperation and fear and dread on their faces will stay with me forever.

Yeah I have no interest in seeing images or footage of dead bodies, execution, violence etc. it’s not good for anyone, certainly not me - I don’t even like violence in films - and I get exposed to enough horrible stuff (usually descriptions of things) as it is through work.

 

[Spymaster]

You're the bright spark pointing out the fucking obvious after maybe 2000 people have died

Way more than 2000. Israel have now confirmed over 1000 dead. The Palestinian death toll will be multiples of that.

 

[Pickman's model]

Way more than 2000. Israel have now confirmed over 1000 dead. The Palestinian death toll will be multiples of that.

Time to say this won't end well I think

 

[A380]

Waving a Palestinian flag or singing a chant advocating freedom for Arabs in the region may be a criminal offence, the UK’s home secretary, Suella Braverman, has told senior police officers.

In a letter to chief constables in England and Wales, Braverman urged them to clamp down on any attempts to use flags, songs or swastikas to harass or intimidate members of the Jewish community.

Her words, which follow deadly attacks by Hamas on Israelis and a military response, will deeply concern freedom of speech advocates and members of the Muslim community. She also wrote:


Braverman’s letter was sent after Rishi Sunak vowed that anyone in the UK supporting Hamas would be “held to account” in the aftermath of the attack on Israel.

I imagine the NPCC will give this the same careful consideration they give to most of her statements…

 

[Humberto]

In terms of the timing of the Hamas atrocities, it seems odd in some ways. Desperation? Or is it partly an opportunity?

Less than three weeks ago, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu sat beside President Joe Biden and marveled that a “historic peace between Israel and Saudi Arabia” seemed within reach — a diplomatic advance that he predicted could lead to lasting peace between the Israelis and Palestinians.

Biden was equally optimistic, telling Netanyahu during their meeting in New York, “If you and I — 10 years ago — were talking about normalization with Saudi Arabia, I think we’d look at each other like, ‘Who’s been drinking what?’”

Now, the outbreak of war between Israel and the Palestinians after a devastating Hamas attack on Israeli soil is threatening to delay or derail the yearslong, country-by-country diplomatic push by the United States to improve relations between Israel and its Arab neighbors.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken said the Hamas attacks may have been driven in part by a desire to scuttle the United States’ most ambitious part of the initiative: the sealing of diplomatic relations between rivals Israel and Saudi Arabia. The Middle East’s two greatest powers share a common enemy in Iran, a generous military and financial sponsor of Hamas

Biden's hopes for establishing Israel-Saudi relations could become a casualty of the new Mideast war

The outbreak of war between Israel and the Palestinians is threatening to delay or derail a country-by-country diplomatic push by the United States to improve relations between Israel and its Arab neighbors.

apnews.com

Allies talk of standing shoulder to shoulder with Israel, but this could have already damaged the Israeli state.

 

[Idris2002]

Can we spoiler the death images?

I fucked up, sorry.

But the point was that she may be alive.

 

[two sheds]

I moaned about it once and nobody was interested.

https://www.urban75.net/forums/threads/twitter-ffs.377620/

There’s even a rule on not posting links without comment which is never enforced.

Pickman's model sometimes enforces it

 

[Pickman's model]

In terms of the timing of the Hamas atrocities, it seems odd in some ways. Desperation? Or is it partly an opportunity?

Biden's hopes for establishing Israel-Saudi relations could become a casualty of the new Mideast war

The outbreak of war between Israel and the Palestinians is threatening to delay or derail a country-by-country diplomatic push by the United States to improve relations between Israel and its Arab neighbors.

apnews.com

Allies talk of standing shoulder to shoulder with Israel, but this could have already damaged the Israeli state.

This was likely planned for years, and intelligence gathered over a very long period. It's not the sort of thing you sketch on the back of an envelope on Friday and send the troops out on Monday. E2a and frankly they played a blinder. Their deception and operational security seems to have been second to none and intelligence heads will roll in shin bet and mossad, no doubt. While many of us have severe differences over the execution of the operation there's no doubt the planners showed great skill and this will be something militaries and 'non-state actors' will study for many years to come.

For my money part of the aim of this was to undermine the Palestinian authority in the West bank, to undermine relations between the zionists and Muslim regimes, and to reaffirm a Palestinian military tradition which has been ineffective for many years. I don't believe hamas will have failed to foresee the devastation the zionists will unleash and it's my suspicion they will have prepared some surprises for any ground assault.

 

[Pickman's model]

I fucked up, sorry.

But the point was that she may be alive.

But not for long if the nefandous Netanyahu has his way

 

[Humberto]

This was likely planned for years, and intelligence gathered over a very long period. It's not the sort of thing you sketch on the back of an envelope on Friday and send the troops out on Monday

Hamas close ties with Iran include regular meetings so yes.

 

[belboid]

There's not a chance in hell that carrying a Palestinian flag will be considered unlawful. Will she amend the Online Safety Act to include a crackdown on the emoji?

That's not the point, tho. When does carrying a flag become 'intimidatory' or could it be considered 'whether its use in certain contexts may amount to a racially aggravated section 5 public order offence.'?

 

[kebabking]

Yeah I have no interest in seeing images or footage of dead bodies, execution, violence etc. it’s not good for anyone, certainly not me - I don’t even like violence in films - and I get exposed to enough horrible stuff (usually descriptions of things) as it is through work.

It’s not just the explicit violence that we could do without seeing. I saw some footage of some people being abducted on The Guardian website that I wish I could unsee and unhear. There was no warning either. The desperation and fear and dread on their faces will stay with me forever.

I'm going to disagree with this, although I - obviously - understand how grim it is, and the effect it can have on the viewer.

For me, to refuse to watch someone's pain, or fear, or death is to deny their humanity to some extent. I may not be able to bring them confort, but I can bare witness to their suffering, and the value of their life as a life. It is - to me - to turn aside. It's to say 'this is to horrible to watch', while that person doesn't watch it, but endures it.

I'm not going to deny the effect it has on other people who think differently, and it's just my personal view - but refusing to watch this stuff sits uncomfortably with me.

 

[Flavour]

Those who wish can seek it out elsewhere, imo, kebabking . This is not the place for it.

 

[Pickman's model]

Hamas close ties with Iran include regular meetings so yes.

Yes. But you don't gain knowledge of zionist infrastructure and its weaknesses in a short period of time. You don't put together the amount of kit required or the training needed just like that. It's likely something no zionist 'red team' ever wargamed. hamas have proved themselves a far more formidable group than I ever anticipated, and I wonder what they'll do as a follow-up

 

[Duncan2]

I'm going to disagree with this, although I - obviously - understand how grim it is, and the effect it can have on the viewer.

For me, to refuse to watch someone's pain, or fear, or death is to deny their humanity to some extent. I may not be able to bring them confort, but I can bare witness to their suffering, and the value of their life as a life. It is - to me - to turn aside. It's to say 'this is to horrible to watch', while that person doesn't watch it, but endures it.

I'm not going to deny the effect it has on other people who think differently, and it's just my personal view - but refusing to watch this stuff sits uncomfortably with me.

that of course is assuming the verisimilitude of the content you are viewing-and it seems that this cannot in any way be guaranteed post Musk et al.

 

[TopCat]

I'm going to disagree with this, although I - obviously - understand how grim it is, and the effect it can have on the viewer.

For me, to refuse to watch someone's pain, or fear, or death is to deny their humanity to some extent. I may not be able to bring them confort, but I can bare witness to their suffering, and the value of their life as a life. It is - to me - to turn aside. It's to say 'this is to horrible to watch', while that person doesn't watch it, but endures it.

I'm not going to deny the effect it has on other people who think differently, and it's just my personal view - but refusing to watch this stuff sits uncomfortably with me.

Do you watch footage of dead babies in Gaza?

 

[Pickman's model]

that of course is assuming the verisimilitude of the content you are viewing-and it seems that this cannot in any way be guaranteed post Musk et al

It's all I think real but whether it's from the past week, there we'll have to see

 

[Magnus McGinty]

I'm going to disagree with this, although I - obviously - understand how grim it is, and the effect it can have on the viewer.

For me, to refuse to watch someone's pain, or fear, or death is to deny their humanity to some extent. I may not be able to bring them confort, but I can bare witness to their suffering, and the value of their life as a life. It is - to me - to turn aside. It's to say 'this is to horrible to watch', while that person doesn't watch it, but endures it.

I'm not going to deny the effect it has on other people who think differently, and it's just my personal view - but refusing to watch this stuff sits uncomfortably with me.

I remember a pro-Palestine group whose SM content was horrific. I only started slating them when they went full on anti-Semitic with proper Jewish caricatures of hooked nosed cheaters and snakes wrapped around the world. There’s some fucking odd parts of the left.

 

[Humberto]

Yes. But you don't gain knowledge of zionist infrastructure and its weaknesses in a short period of time. You don't put together the amount of kit required or the training needed just like that. It's likely something no zionist 'red team' ever wargamed. hamas have proved themselves a far more formidable group than I ever anticipated, and I wonder what they'll do as a follow-up

No I agree. I was clumsily trying to question the view that it makes no strategic sense. Horrific and sad as it all is.

 

[PR1Berske]

That's not the point, tho. When does carrying a flag become 'intimidatory' or could it be considered 'whether its use in certain contexts may amount to a racially aggravated section 5 public order offence.'?

My immediate response is "rarely if ever". But life isn't that easy. I could imagine displaying the swastika on a red flag in some contexts; displaying the current Taliban "shahada" flag in some contexts.

I'm at the polar opposite of the Home Office on pretty much anything. Probably everything. It's unworkable to instruct police to effectively hunt down displays of the Palestine flag.

 

[Knotted]

Where I believe we're at.

Israel's image as an invincible military power has taken a hammering. The psychological advantage Israel had has been lost.

Arabs throughout MENA are spontaneously rallying to the Palestinian cause against the normalising desires of the Arab rulers - yes this war may actually turn into class war (of sorts) in the broader region.

Israel (the Israeli government but also frankly a governing class with deep and broad popular support visa vie Palestinians) may be looking to rescue hostages and retaliate but more than anything they are determined to regain that psychological advantage. At an instinctive level they are terrified they look weak.

There will not be enough Palestinian corpses to regain that psychological advantage.

The Palestinian cause is urgent.

 

[Pickman's model]

I doubt we in the west are hamas' primary audience. And difficult viewing for us will undoubtedly go down a storm with people who enjoy seeing the zionists getting more than a bloody nose

 

[Magnus McGinty]

Yes. But you don't gain knowledge of zionist infrastructure and its weaknesses in a short period of time. You don't put together the amount of kit required or the training needed just like that. It's likely something no zionist 'red team' ever wargamed. hamas have proved themselves a far more formidable group than I ever anticipated, and I wonder what they'll do as a follow-up

It will have had a lot more planning than the rave, who clearly didn’t consider it a security risk.