I thought we were discussing the General Ford (or similar) pulling up? I said it was to 'discourage Iran'. You said I needed to look at a map. So either you misunderstood what I said or ... I'm not sure what you meant by the map? Like planes can't fly over a desert or protect Israel or something.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
Where did I say they were going to fly over to Iran?
discokermit
Well-Known Member
it didn't discourage iran.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I think comparing it to slavery going a bit far. Its a settler colonial state not a state founded on slavery.
Before Gaza attack/ Hamas attack I was reading on Empire and slavery.
The more recent histories have done a lot of work on resistance. Resistance in a broad way. With historians now putting argument that resistance to slavery was much more common than once thought.
I think that way of looking at resistance can be applied elsewhere.
Resistance in Palestine/ Israel is multifaceted. And has been continual since Israel was founded.
Myself I think both the forms of how Zionism has been put into action you correctly describe overlap. With at times the more clearly violent one in forefront.
I think another comparison - contemporary one - is Kenya and the Mau Mau rebellion. Kenya like Israel is settler colonial state. In Kenya Africans were pushed off their lands. Repression by British was brutal.
A comparison with history of slavery is that recent histories look at resistance by slaves as well as opposition to slavery in the Metropole.
Now the global South headed by South Africa state leading the way as well. A welcome new development. With public protest against Israel state in Western countries. Along with ongoing resistance in different forms by Palestinians
How they interact.
It's a bit far fetched but a way to look at opposition to Zionism is to look at the ongoing multi faceted resistance of Palestinians and the global support they get from ordinary people.
To get change in Palestine/ Israel requires both.
Waiting for change within Israel isn't going to work.
Another lesson from history of slavery was when it was abolished this didn't end the struggle of now free colonised people. But it was a start.
Any non violent opposition in Israel/ Palestine gets violently put down by state of Israel. One of the states defining ways of acting as a state since Inception.
Now the state of Israel is up in court for Genocide hopefully as the case progresses the impunity with which Israel as a state has acted since it's inception will be shattered. I hope so and would like to be optimistic on this. And also help l end trying to link anti Zionism as a form of anti semitism or making a space for it. I don't think that's going to last much longer. Particularly in younger generation. As now old trot friend of mine on march last said said to me it's good to see so many young people taking interest in this issue of Israel/ Palestine.
Secondly the pressure public can put on politicians to cut arms to Israel and trade links/ agreements. This is all doable
But yes I take your point on the different forms of how Zionism operates. With the second one you describe being in place for decades and western governments turn a blind eye to it.
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Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Why the fuck would they send planes over Syria etc when they could either fly from bases in Arab countries or from Diego garcia where they keep actual bombers? I ask again, have you looked at an atlas?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
So how were they going to discourage the Islamic Republic?
If Iran were going to invade, how would they do it?
Let’s hear your alternative theory of why US warships and an aircraft carrier arrived that doesn’t involve Iran then.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
The more likely thing is to suggest something to hezbollah isn't it. Unless you're suggesting h have no autonomy.
They’re funded by Iran though?
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Carefully. But it's utterly unrealistic to suggest Iran has seriously considered invading the ze.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think you're away in cloud cuckoo land with your chat of invading Israel and suggesting this might reasonably be done by what are effectively light infantry without much in the way of armour or air support.
It was utter madness to think they’d lob a barrage of missiles at them until a few days ago.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Only if you've not followed events the last few years. An analogous incident would be the american assassination of solemani in Baghdad, and the Iranians lobbed missiles at an American base or two. The Iranians told the Americans what they were going to do to respond to the attack on their consulate and tho on larger scale than the attack on American bases it's the same method of response.
teqniq
DisMembered
Fucksake:
ska invita
back on the other side
Netanyahus "make our own decisions" speech was reported, but seemed to have missed the key thing said directly after those words, that Israel will settle in Gaza and 19 Billion sheckles has been agreed to pay for phase one
Fucksake:
Not sure if I believe this with the anonymous source. But it is sadly very believable.
Yossarian
⏭️
Best promotion for DuckDuckGo or whatever that I've ever seen
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It's pretty clear that Israel purposely escalated in order to provoke Iran into something. Now that something has happened, they will hope to have leverage. Their plan may be working, after a strange, apocalyptic fashion.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Tbh the lever may shuffle Israel off the map. I remain confident the kingdom of Jerusalem (1099-1187) will prove to have been more longlasting than the zionist entityIt's pretty clear that Israel purposely escalated in order to provoke Iran into something. Now that something has happened, they will hope to have leverage. Their plan may be working, after a strange, apocalyptic fashion.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It is certainly a case of being very careful what you wish for if you're a Netanyahu government supporter right now. It does appear from reports that the majority of Israelis don't see that this is their existential danger.
Is it though? I think Israel are in a better position than they possibly ever have been due to other Arab states fearing Iran’s ambitions in the region over Israel’s.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Sorry - I didn't mean slavery in terms of actually being enslaved, but rather the continual reminders of inferiority and worthlessness that Palestinians in the West Bank are deliberately subjected to.
The one that has always stuck in my mind is how one of the markets in Hebron has netting above all the alleyways and shops, because the settlement oversees that market and the occupants of said settlement like to throw things at the shoppers.
That's nothing new though.
The fact that they're becoming allies of Israel is though.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Of course it should be remembered that "security prisoners" are those seized off the street, not those charged (or convicted) of anything and potentially indefinitely. He is in essence talking about shooting hostages.
Yes.. this is my understanding too.
It's barbaric. To even think of shooting prisoners...as a solution.
The Israeli government is proving itself to be a very evil entity.
A view from Israel
www.972mag.com
Six months after October 7, a lament for the paths not chosen
I write to Israelis who believe they have no place in their hearts for Gaza, to understand how we got to this war — and to get out of it.
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