Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Pickman's model]

The American Palestinian historian has the "Long Read" in the Guardian today.

I've read his book he mentions in article.

The attack on Gaza is the latest event in what he calls the hundred years war on Palestine.

In his work he foregrounds the importance to Zionism and later Israel of western international governments support. First British empire and now USA. Without this support Zionism/ Israel would be hard pressed to act in way it does.

He sees younger generation in West as being more pro Palestine. Now they have other ways of getting news than the mainstream press.

The non Western world such as South Africa are taking more of a role now.

He says Biden is basically continuing policies of Trump re Israel.

The "normalisation" process being one. If this had continued the Palestinians would have been left with little support.

The Arab people are very pro Palestine. The autocratic leaders aren't.

The peace process was a shame. No western country will stand up to Israel to make a real two state solution.

‘A new abyss’: Gaza and the hundred years’ war on Palestine

The long read: While much has changed since 7 October, the horrific events of the past six months are not unique, and do not stand outside history

www.theguardian.com

It's quite a bleak picture.

peace process a shame - or did you mean sham?

 

[Mezzer]

I must admit that I don't read this risible 'magazine', but even skimming this, the disinformation is extraordinary. It's almost as if they have people on the ground in Gaza, to be so sure of what's going on.

Hamas has all but won

It would be hard to imagine that almost exactly six months after October 7, I would find myself saying this, but Israel is either on a path to defeat or has lost the war already. The way in which the Jewish state – the regional military superpower, enjoying huge military support from the global...

www.spectator.co.uk

 

[Gramsci]

peace process a shame - or did you mean sham?

Yes a sham

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I must admit that I don't read this risible 'magazine', but even skimming this, the disinformation is extraordinary. It's almost as if they have people on the ground in Gaza, to be so sure of what's going on.

Hamas has all but won

It would be hard to imagine that almost exactly six months after October 7, I would find myself saying this, but Israel is either on a path to defeat or has lost the war already. The way in which the Jewish state – the regional military superpower, enjoying huge military support from the global...

www.spectator.co.uk

They don't need people on the ground in Gaza when they have people from the Jewish Chronicle.

 

[Gramsci]

I must admit that I don't read this risible 'magazine', but even skimming this, the disinformation is extraordinary. It's almost as if they have people on the ground in Gaza, to be so sure of what's going on.

Hamas has all but won

It would be hard to imagine that almost exactly six months after October 7, I would find myself saying this, but Israel is either on a path to defeat or has lost the war already. The way in which the Jewish state – the regional military superpower, enjoying huge military support from the global...

www.spectator.co.uk

I almost thought this was a spoof.

It's the this all started on the 7th October. This isn't a war that Israel wanted. It's under existential threat from genocidal Jihadis.

Israel is at the frontline of a global war against Jihadis. And "we" are letting them down. This isn't just a war in Israel. Its about defending western values.

He comes up with his own plan as armchair general to move civilians out of south Gaza so Israel can finish the job.

Even thinks the Democrats in US have gone soft.

demonstrators in west are being manipulated by Iran/ Hamas.

it's bordering on conspiracy loon stuff.

What's particularly disturbing about it is lack of context. History has been scrubbed out. It's clash of civilizations view.

 

[emanymton]

I must admit that I don't read this risible 'magazine', but even skimming this, the disinformation is extraordinary. It's almost as if they have people on the ground in Gaza, to be so sure of what's going on.

Hamas has all but won

It would be hard to imagine that almost exactly six months after October 7, I would find myself saying this, but Israel is either on a path to defeat or has lost the war already. The way in which the Jewish state – the regional military superpower, enjoying huge military support from the global...

www.spectator.co.uk

Wow, that is quite some article.
I wonder if he believes any of it himself?

 

[Gramsci]

I must admit that I don't read this risible 'magazine', but even skimming this, the disinformation is extraordinary. It's almost as if they have people on the ground in Gaza, to be so sure of what's going on.

Hamas has all but won

It would be hard to imagine that almost exactly six months after October 7, I would find myself saying this, but Israel is either on a path to defeat or has lost the war already. The way in which the Jewish state – the regional military superpower, enjoying huge military support from the global...

www.spectator.co.uk

Reading this reminded me of what Eyal Weizman said in Hollow Land.

Page 250

"The theoretical terms of this argument were articulated by the human rights scholar and now a leader of the Liberal Party of Canada, Michael Ignatieff. Ignatieff claimed that in a ‘war on terror’, democratic societies may need to breach some basic human rights"

Whilst not saying this explicitly this is what's in the background of spectator article.

With in spectator writers view that Israel is at the frontline of this war on Jihadi terror.

It's a certain kind of western liberal view

 

[planetgeli]

I must admit that I don't read this risible 'magazine', but even skimming this, the disinformation is extraordinary. It's almost as if they have people on the ground in Gaza, to be so sure of what's going on.

Hamas has all but won

It would be hard to imagine that almost exactly six months after October 7, I would find myself saying this, but Israel is either on a path to defeat or has lost the war already. The way in which the Jewish state – the regional military superpower, enjoying huge military support from the global...

www.spectator.co.uk

You just made me read the most ridiculous shit from The Spectator.

You owe me 5 minutes of my life back.

 

[two sheds]

Yes a sham

That's a shame

 

[teqniq]

The Economist has, imo been previously more upbeat with regards to Israel's actions in Gaza. Not so much now:

The IDF is accused of military and moral failures in Gaza

 

[Larry O'Hara]

According to the Times of Israel, the IDF today has killed three of Haniyeh's sons and "several" of his grandchildren during a bombing in Gaza - whilst ceasefire negotiations are still taking place.

I really hope this causes the scales to finally fall from the eyes of Biden, Sunak and the rest about what they are supporting - even their recent mealy-mouthed exchanges about ceasefires being needed are clearly being ignored.

They know what they are supporting but just don’t care

 

[johnwesley]

https://archive.ph/DkYat

Saying what can't be said: Israel has been defeated – a total defeat

***

www.haaretz.com

 

[Benjamin F]

https://archive.ph/DkYat

Saying what can't be said: Israel has been defeated – a total defeat

***

www.haaretz.com

View attachment 419601

This is true from a leftist position (a largely marginal position in Israeli society nowadays), but for the revisionist Zionists and bigot-nationalists the war is already a success. Tens of thousands of Palestinians are dead (they view that as a good thing), Palestinians and other populations have been even more radicalised thereby justifying further strengthening of the militarised states, expansionism and curtailment of liberties (and patriotic sacrifice by the poorer sections of the population). It also makes a negotiated "Peace Process" and cross-community co-operation are impossible. These are all great things for Jewish-supremacist-nationalists of Likud and their Kahane-ist coalition partners. Netanyahu always saw the return of the hostages as a secondary consideration. Whilst their return could be celebrated as a success, their deaths will be used to justify further assaults on a severely brutalised population.

 

[Gramsci]

https://archive.ph/DkYat

Saying what can't be said: Israel has been defeated – a total defeat

***

www.haaretz.com

View attachment 419601

What's he actually saying?

This is his alternative:

The shock of the outbreak of the war could have been a starting point for a swift, powerful, aggressive, eminently justified campaign to quickly root out Hamas wherever that was possible. It could have then been replaced by a coalition of countries with money and good intentions to carry out reconstruction, with global and Arab backing, along with the Palestinian Authority. We could have created a viable alternative to Hamas in Gaza. After six months, there already might have been the first signs of independent government there.

So he's still saying they should have gone after Hamas.

This implies "reconstruction" would have been necessary. That is a lot of Gaza infrastructure would have been destroyed in process.

The difference is that some form of Palestinian self government would have been allowed.

Doesn't sound like actual Palestinians would have had a say in this. Palestinian authority does not have much support amongst Palestinians.

All in all what he's advocating is a slightly nicer form of colonialism.

Notice says nothing about context of this apart from going on about Netanyahu and the right. For example west bank. Settlement building is not mentioned in this article.

 

[nino_savatte]

https://archive.ph/DkYat

Saying what can't be said: Israel has been defeated – a total defeat

***

www.haaretz.com

View attachment 419601

Well, they're certainly losing the propaganda war. How many government spokespeople (not counting the IDF) have they had since last October? 4? 5? 6?

 

[Idris2002]

What's he actually saying?

This is his alternative:



So he's still saying they should have gone after Hamas.

This implies "reconstruction" would have been necessary. That is a lot of Gaza infrastructure would have been destroyed in process.

The difference is that some form of Palestinian self government would have been allowed.

Doesn't sound like actual Palestinians would have had a say in this. Palestinian authority does not have much support amongst Palestinians.

All in all what he's advocating is a slightly nicer form of colonialism.

Notice says nothing about context of this apart from going on about Netanyahu and the right. For example west bank. Settlement building is not mentioned in this article.

People like him have been irrelevant since Rabin was shot. There's already been an Israeli civil war, and it had exactly one casualty - Yitzhak Rabin. Following that, the Israeli left upped stumps and retired to the pavilion - forever.

 

[Sue]

They were reporting on R4 this morning that many Israelis think reports of food shortages in Gaza are lies and that there are people demonstrating and trying to prevent any aid at all entering Gaza.

 

[agricola]

This is true from a leftist position (a largely marginal position in Israeli society nowadays), but for the revisionist Zionists and bigot-nationalists the war is already a success. Tens of thousands of Palestinians are dead (they view that as a good thing), Palestinians and other populations have been even more radicalised thereby justifying further strengthening of the militarised states, expansionism and curtailment of liberties (and patriotic sacrifice by the poorer sections of the population). It also makes a negotiated "Peace Process" and cross-community co-operation are impossible. These are all great things for Jewish-supremacist-nationalists of Likud and their Kahane-ist coalition partners. Netanyahu always saw the return of the hostages as a secondary consideration. Whilst their return could be celebrated as a success, their deaths will be used to justify further assaults on a severely brutalised population.

The only thing I would add here is that the supremacist-nationalists think that these are all great things, which is of course not the same as them actually being great things for them. The reality is that they have already led Israel to its greatest defeat and certainly give the impression of leading it a point where its existence as a state is potentially questionable.

I know the polling and other things give the impression that removing Netanyahu wouldn't do much to improve matters, but he is the person most responsible for (further) radicalizing Israeli society.

 

[yield]

Labor and the Bibi-Modi “Bromance”
bostonreview. April 11, 2024
The Israel-India worker deal resembles British indenture.

In December, Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi received a personal request from his friend and political ally, Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu: expedite the supply of Indian construction labor and other migrant workers to Israel. Prior to October 7, Palestinians from the West Bank and Gaza made up the majority of workers in Israel’s construction and agriculture sectors, doing crucial, if invisible, work in the country’s apartheid society. But in the wake of the Hamas attacks, Israel terminated the work permits—more than two hundred thousand in all—granted by Israel to Palestinian workers from the Occupied Palestinian Territories including Gaza. To fill the gap, thousands of Indian workers will soon arrive in Israel; the first planeload of workers has already landed. In the coming month, tens of thousands more men, hailing from some of India’s poorest states like Bihar and Uttar Pradesh, are expected to join them.

Unsurprisingly, the mass revocation of Palestinians’ work permits has created a pressing labor supply problem in Israel, with its construction industry facing the most severe shortages. Before this war, more than two-thirds of Palestinians working in Israel were employed in that sector. Indeed, for much of Israel’s history, writes Andrew Ross, “the hands that built Israel’s houses, schools, factories, offices, roads, bridges, and even its separation barriers, have been Palestinian.” So when the war began and Palestinians were barred from their jobs, urban development projects across Israel ground to a halt. Industry leaders are now reportedly looking to replace up to one hundred thousand Palestinians in the industry with workers from India, a number that has nearly doubled since December.

Israel already employs some eighteen thousand Indian migrant workers, mostly women working in the care sectors. Plans to greatly expand that number—particularly in the construction sector—have been afoot for some time. In May 2023, India and Israel signed a new bilateral agreement to bring forty-two thousand additional Indian laborers to Israel. Modi’s most recent agreement with Netanyahu aims to fast-track current plans even more, lifting restrictions to hasten migrant workers’ entry into Israel. The temporary, low-wage migrants from rural and small-town North India, some of the poorest regions in the country, are desperate for decent employment—so desperate that they’re willing to work for a regime that is actively engaged in what the International Court of Justice has called a “plausible genocide.” They’re seeking paid work they’ve failed to find within India’s growing but deeply unequal and caste-bound economy. Bilateral deals like the one between India and Israel give off the sheen of newness, appearing to be the products of a twenty-first century age of hypermobile capital. But in fact, the two countries are dusting off a time-worn strategy from the colonial archive: importing and exporting racially marked temporary labor to manage political and economic problems in one fell swoop.

 

[krtek a houby]

Some good news. Whether their endeavours will succeed is another thing.

Ireland and Spain reiterate plan to form alliance to recognise state of Palestine

Leaders of two nations vow to muster international support for two-state solution to Gaza crisis

www.theguardian.com

 

[Rimbaud]

The US is warning that an Iranian strike is imminent and says it will respond to defend Israel and has moved warships to the region. Iran says that if the US gets involved they will target US troops in the region.

https://www.axios.com/2024/04/12/iran-israel-attack-us-troops-warning

Reading between the lines, it seems like Iran feels the need to show a strong response but also wants to avoid escalation. The US has also warned Israel not to respond without consulting them.

Neither Iran nor the US want to escalate things but both have to tread a line of balancing saving face with avoiding significant escalation. There is a dangerous risk of miscalculation.

 

[kabbes]

It doesn't make any sense for Iran to directly intervene. Their whole 'ring of fire', asymmetric warfare tactical approach to defence is to encourage everybody else in the region to constantly be at each other's throats, precisely to avoid having to directly confront anybody themselves. Iran are militarily weak but counter that through a sophisticated form of influence via resistance/guerrilla/terrorist groups. The point isn't to actually support or oppose regimes. The point is to keep everybody looking away from Iran. Given that, I don't know what benefit it would be for Iran to get directly involved in the fighting.

 

[Pickman's model]

It doesn't make any sense for Iran to directly intervene. Their whole 'ring of fire', asymmetric warfare tactical approach to defence is to encourage everybody else in the region to constantly be at each other's throats, precisely to avoid having to directly confront anybody themselves. Iran are militarily weak but counter that through a sophisticated form of influence via resistance/guerrilla/terrorist groups. The point isn't to actually support or oppose regimes. The point is to keep everybody looking away from Iran. Given that, I don't know what benefit it would be for Iran to get directly involved in the fighting.

How are Iran militarily weak? They've more than a million serving and reserve armed forces. More than 309 combat aircraft and helicopters. More than 200 vessels in their navy. Many,many thousands of long range missiles - several different sorts that can strike Israel from Iran. A vast number of artillery systems. A huge number of drones. They've a range of aircraft including f-14s, f-4s and f-5s plus their own home-grown copies and they're waiting on new Russian fighters. Don't just take my word for it tho
2024 Iran Military Strength How Strong is Iran's Military? Iran's Missiles and Other Weapons Iran Military Power Report Statement
Reckon you're just ignorant

 

[teqniq]

Suddenly, having those airbases right next door to Iran may turn out to be worthless:

Qatar and Kuwait Prohibit US from Using Its Air Bases, Airspace for Strikes on Iran

Qatar and Kuwait have reportedly issued directives to the United States stating that their fighter jets are not permitted to use airbases in these Arab nations to launch airstrikes against Iran.

defencesecurityasia.com

 

[Gramsci]

Labor and the Bibi-Modi “Bromance”
bostonreview. April 11, 2024
The Israel-India worker deal resembles British indenture.

Interesting read.

The system of indentured Labour first set up by British Empire influences this new form of indentured Labour. With as article says some of the same networks still in place. One reason why this has been able to be set up so quickly and efficiently.

Interesting how the shadow of the British Empire falls on this conflict in more than one way. How modern day colonialism works.

Its also been set up to make sure these migrant workers to Israel do not have opportunity to try to get citizenship of Israel. However long they work there. As this would effect Israel as an ethno nationalist state.

Article shows how right wing ethno nationalist states can support each other and how workforce is global.

So long term aim is to "wean" Israel economy off Palestinian workers. Something not just the right in Israel want.

Racism is involved. Good luck if you are not Hindu and a Muslim if you are poor Indian worker And try to get a job in Israel. That's along with making sure any of these workers does not try to stay in Israel and bring family over. Can't have that.

To add Israel in sense of old borders. Article does say in West Bank developers can still employ Palestinians to build settlements. Which has been a boon to them. As so many Palestinians are unemployed now. They can pick and choose.

 

[teqniq]

Could this be the retaliatory response from Iran for the bombing of their consulate? If so it's not what Israel would want or expect. Could also meant that the straits of Hormuz are now closed to Israeli shipping:

 

[Kippax180]

 

[Pickman's model]

But what do you think?

 

[Pickman's model]

Could this be the retaliatory response from Iran for the bombing of their consulate? If so it's not what Israel would want or expect. Could also meant that the straits of Hormuz are now closed to Israeli shipping:

I think it's the dozens of drones heading towards the zionist entity

 

[Pickman's model]