Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Ol Nick]

I’m

You can’t view the events of Oct in isolation. Fuck Israel.

I’d like to reply in one go to all of this, but I’ll do it post by post so apologies for lack of coherence.

I don’t view the “events” in isolation. I have a pretty good understanding back to Ottoman times. But the “Islamic Resistance” Hamas did this. The raping, murder and baby-kidnap. The actual elected government of Gaza. I mean that’s new.

Israel could have reacted differently to the baby-kidnap. But they didn’t do it. The Palestinians did and they have to deal with that now.

 

[Gramsci]

It is quite appalling what is happening in Germany over the the documentary on Palestine:

Today (February 26), Claudia Roth, Germany’s minister for culture and the media, announced that with Wegner, she is launching an investigation into the incidents during Saturday’s awards ceremony to see “how the Berlinale has or has not lived up to its claim of being a place of diversity, different perspectives and dialogue” and “to ensure in future that the Berlinale is a place that is free from hatred, hate speech, anti-Semitism, racism, Islamophobia and all forms of enmity”.

Roth said the statements made by prize-winners during the awards ceremony had been “frighteningly one-sided and characterised by a profound hatred of Israel.”

Here is one of the statements by one of the Israelis who were part of making the doc:

On receiving the award, Abraham said, “In two days we will go back to a land where we are not equal. I am living under a civilian law, Basel under military law. We live 30 minutes from one another but I have voting rights, but Basel doesn’t. I am free to move where I want in this land, but Basel is locked like millions of Palestinians in the West Bank. This situation of inequality and apartheid has to end.”

Abraham shared a clip of his speech on X the following day, noting it has been labelled “anti-semitic” by Israeli television channel Kan 11 and that he continues to “stand behind every word.”

For an Israeli to say this in the present climate in Israel is brave.

The German government. ( And in article German politicians across the spectrum are lining up to criticise the award ceremony. I get the feeling they would have preferred it if a documentary like this did not make it to awards.

Reminds me of earlier incident when a Palestinian writer won award and was not allowed to speak.

In this case those running the awards did let the winners speak. That appears to be the main problem.

Berlin politicians slam anti-war, pro-Palestinian comments at festival’s closing night gala

"There can't be any room here for relativisations. I expect measures here from the new Berlinale management," said Berlin's mayor Kai Wegner.

www.screendaily.com

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

I’m
I’d like to reply in one go to all of this, but I’ll do it post by post so apologies for lack of coherence.

I don’t view the “events” in isolation. I have a pretty good understanding back to Ottoman times. But the “Islamic Resistance” Hamas did this. The raping, murder and baby-kidnap. The actual elected government of Gaza. I mean that’s new.

Israel could have reacted differently to the baby-kidnap. But they didn’t do it. The Palestinians did and they have to deal with that now.

What? All those thousands of Palestinian women and children? They didn't do it either. If you can't see that then your opinions are worthless.

 

[Gramsci]

No but seriously, and I am going to stick to the facts. I have no horse in this race.

Gaza has an elected government

This government has a constitution that promises to not only destroy the country next door, but also kill every citizen of it and every adherent of its religion.

Some facts.

A previous post of mine on history of Hamas. I've done a few more

Post in thread 'Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion' Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

From my post:

“Hamas has always said that they are ready to offer a truce and to stop targeting civilians if the [Israeli] occupation removes its settlers,” Tareq Baconi, author of Hamas Contained: The Rise and Pacification of Palestinian Resistance, told Al Jazeera.

 

[dylanredefined]

Killing twenty thousand people, the majority women and children deserves a military response.

Yeah, let's attack a nuclear power for people who despise us. What could go wrong? The UK has made an utter mess of the Middle East and should stay out.

 

[Gramsci]

I’m
I’d like to reply in one go to all of this, but I’ll do it post by post so apologies for lack of coherence.

I don’t view the “events” in isolation. I have a pretty good understanding back to Ottoman times. But the “Islamic Resistance” Hamas did this. The raping, murder and baby-kidnap. The actual elected government of Gaza. I mean that’s new.

Israel could have reacted differently to the baby-kidnap. But they didn’t do it. The Palestinians did and they have to deal with that now.

So you support collective punishment.

 

[Aladdin]

I’m
I’d like to reply in one go to all of this, but I’ll do it post by post so apologies for lack of coherence.

I don’t view the “events” in isolation. I have a pretty good understanding back to Ottoman times. But the “Islamic Resistance” Hamas did this. The raping, murder and baby-kidnap. The actual elected government of Gaza. I mean that’s new.

Israel could have reacted differently to the baby-kidnap. But they didn’t do it. The Palestinians did and they have to deal with that now.

Ok.. you say you dont view events in isolation.
How would you feel if you came home one day and your home was taken over by someone else. All your things gone...locks changed and there was nothing you could do because these same people could literally imprison you, torture you, kill you for speaking up. You try to leave the place but you soon realise these same people control where you can and cant go. They have a camera trained on you following your movements every where you go. They hold a gun towards you when you gl to buy food. They pat you down and search you everytime they want.

Could you live like that without putting up a resistance? For 75 years?

 

[story]

US Air Force member dies after setting himself on fire outside Israeli embassy in DC

An active-duty member of the U.S. Air Force has died after setting himself on fire Sunday outside the Israeli Embassy in Washington, D.C., while shouting “free Palestine,” NBC News reports.

www.nbcwashington.com

An active-duty member of the U.S. Air Force who set himself ablaze Sundayoutside the Israeli Embassy in Washington, D.C., while shouting “free Palestine,” has died, a U.S. official confirmed to NBC News.

The airman was identified as Aaron Bushnell, 25, of San Antonio, Texas, D.C. police said.

 

[story]

U.S. Airman Sets Self on Fire Outside Israeli Embassy: Everything We Know So Far

Active-duty Air Force member Aaron Bushnell has died after staging a pro-Palestinian protest in D.C.

time.com

Bushnell reportedly sent a message to media outlets before his self-immolation. “Today, I am planning to engage in an extreme act of protest against the genocide of the Palestinian people,” he warned.
On Facebook Sunday morning, he also wrote: “Many of us like to ask ourselves, ‘What would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide?’ The answer is, you’re doing it. Right now.” The post included a link to a live-stream of his protest on the web-broadcasting platform Twitch, which took down the video for violations of its community guidelines and terms of service.

“I will no longer be complicit in genocide. I’m about to engage in an extreme act of protest,” the airman repeated, in footage reviewed by TIME, as he walked toward the driveway of the Israeli embassy. “But compared to what people have been experiencing in Palestine at the hands of their colonizers, it’s not extreme at all. This is what our ruling class has decided will be normal.”

After Bushnell doused himself with liquid and reached for his lighter, unidentified law enforcement or security officers could be heard asking him, “Can I help you?” After setting himself aflame, Bushnell repeatedly shouted “Free Palestine.”

 

[klang]

Not aimed at anyone in particular, but I'm no fan of the whole eye-for-an-eye sentiment.
It just brings resentment, revenge, and an endless cycle of violence and retaliation.
'Eyes' should be avoided at all cost.

 

[emanymton]

Killing twenty thousand people, the majority women and children deserves a military response.

Unless it's Russia doing it.
Go fuck yourself you fascist cunt.

 

[mojo pixy]

Germany calling


View attachment 413737

Any chance of a translation of that German tweet? I'm not 100% sure it says what the English tweet says it says, but my German is imperfect.

 

[klang]

Re the applause following the speech of YA:
CR was applauding the Jewish Israeli journalist and film maker YA who spoke up for a peaceful coexistence and a political solution in the region

 

[nino_savatte]

No but seriously, and I am going to stick to the facts. I have no horse in this race.

I don't believe you. I reckon you're a hasbara.

 

[Cid]

Any chance of a translation of that German tweet? I'm not 100% sure it says what the English tweet says it says, but my German is imperfect.

Regarding the applause at the #Bear Awards after Yuval Abraham's speech: Claudia Roth's applause went to the Jewish-Israeli journalist and filmmaker Yuval Abraham, who spoke out in favor of a political solution and peaceful coexistence in the region. 1/2
From the point of view of the Minister of State for Culture, it is very worrying that Yuval Abraham says he is now receiving death threats after his appearance at the #Berlinale in Berlin. 2/2

Spoiler: original tweet

(that's just me running it through machine translate, not really checked context)

e2a: From the top response she's trying to justify clapping a speech of solidarity from Abraham to his Palestinian colleague Basel Adra, but not to Adra's response which called on Germany to respect UN calls (for a ceasefire presumably). In doing so of course she basically brushes over the existence of Abraham's colleague.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

 

[PR1Berske]

"The EU foreign policy chief criticized European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen for her “pro-Israel stance.”

In an interview with the Spanish daily El Pais on Sunday, Josep Borrell had harsh words about the trip she took to Tel Aviv in October 2023, where she offered the EU’s unconditional support for the war against Hamas.

“That trip by von der Leyen, with such an absolutely pro-Israeli stance, without representing anyone but herself in a matter of international politics, has had a high geopolitical cost for Europe,” he said.

He also said that US President Joe Biden’s support of Israel seems to be losing him votes among the young Democratic base.

“Hamas is an idea, and an idea can only be fought with another idea. (Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin) Netanyahu’s plans for Gaza are unacceptable. They are sowing the seeds of hate for generations to come,” he told the Spanish daily.

“It’s an open secret that the Israelis funded Hamas as a gamble on dividing the Palestinians,” he added."

Source: EU foreign policy chief criticizes European Commission president’s ‘pro-Israel stance’

 

[Pickman's model]

I don't believe you. I reckon you're a hasbara.

more a hasbeen perhaps

 

[Aladdin]

 

[teqniq]

Well fuck:

U.S. Military Personnel in Iraq Put on Standby to Support Ground Involvement in Israel’s War on Gaza

Documents suggest the U.S. has put military personnel in Iraq on standby to support U.S. ground involvement in Israel’s war on Gaza.

theintercept.com

 

[PTK]

Not aimed at anyone in particular, but I'm no fan of the whole eye-for-an-eye sentiment.
It just brings resentment, revenge, and an endless cycle of violence and retaliation.
'Eyes' should be avoided at all cost.

As someone somewhere pointed out, the "eye for an eye" passages in the Bible were actually a call for a proportionate response, as opposed to simply slaughtering everyone in the other group.

 

[Gramsci]

"The EU foreign policy chief criticized European Commission President Ursula von der Leyen for her “pro-Israel stance.”

In an interview with the Spanish daily El Pais on Sunday, Josep Borrell had harsh words about the trip she took to Tel Aviv in October 2023, where she offered the EU’s unconditional support for the war against Hamas.

“That trip by von der Leyen, with such an absolutely pro-Israeli stance, without representing anyone but herself in a matter of international politics, has had a high geopolitical cost for Europe,” he said.

He also said that US President Joe Biden’s support of Israel seems to be losing him votes among the young Democratic base.

“Hamas is an idea, and an idea can only be fought with another idea. (Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin) Netanyahu’s plans for Gaza are unacceptable. They are sowing the seeds of hate for generations to come,” he told the Spanish daily.

“It’s an open secret that the Israelis funded Hamas as a gamble on dividing the Palestinians,” he added."

Source: EU foreign policy chief criticizes European Commission president’s ‘pro-Israel stance’

What I don't understand is what is the EU foreign policy on Israel/ Palestine.

As different people in leadership of EU say different things and contradict each other.

Also member states have widely different takes on this recent violence.

Spain and a few others wanting ceasefire for some time for example.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I’m
I’d like to reply in one go to all of this, but I’ll do it post by post so apologies for lack of coherence.

I don’t view the “events” in isolation. I have a pretty good understanding back to Ottoman times. But the “Islamic Resistance” Hamas did this. The raping, murder and baby-kidnap. The actual elected government of Gaza. I mean that’s new.

Israel could have reacted differently to the baby-kidnap. But they didn’t do it. The Palestinians did and they have to deal with that now.

Given the threat of the Saudi/ Israel accord it’s no surprise Hamas would increase their barbarity to new levels…

 

[Idris2002]

Spoiler: original tweet

(that's just me running it through machine translate, not really checked context)

e2a: From the top response she's trying to justify clapping a speech of solidarity from Abraham to his Palestinian colleague Basel Adra, but not to Adra's response which called on Germany to respect UN calls (for a ceasefire presumably). In doing so of course she basically brushes over the existence of Abraham's colleague.

Machine translation fits with what my barbarous "noch ein Pils, bitte, kellnerin" level of German says this person said.

 

[Knotted]

Gaza Health Ministry warns of imminent mass deaths from famine​

Ashraf al-Qudra, spokesperson of the Gaza Health Ministry, has called on international agencies to urgently provide food and drinking water throughout Gaza to avert an enormous humanitarian catastrophe.
Al-Qudra spoke earlier to our colleagues at Al Jazeera Arabic. Here’s some of what he had to say:

• “What is happening in northern Gaza is a true famine.”
• “We have recorded two deaths as a result of malnutrition in northern Gaza, and there are others who are suffering and may die at any moment.”
• “We have asked international agencies to survey all shelters to document the spread of hunger.”
• “This escalating famine could kill thousands of citizens due to malnutrition and dehydration in the coming days in front of the eyes of the world.”
• “Aid must enter the Gaza Strip and reach all of its areas – in the north and the south – to contain this catastrophe.”
• “Diseases are also spreading along with malnutrition and dehydration throughout Gaza.”

Gaza’s worsening famine could ‘kill thousands’ in days, official warns

Health Ministry says two children have died of dehydration in Gaza, urgently pleads for food and water to enter Strip.

aje.io

 

[mojo pixy]

Spoiler: original tweet

(that's just me running it through machine translate, not really checked context)

e2a: From the top response she's trying to justify clapping a speech of solidarity from Abraham to his Palestinian colleague Basel Adra, but not to Adra's response which called on Germany to respect UN calls (for a ceasefire presumably). In doing so of course she basically brushes over the existence of Abraham's colleague.

OK then the person clapping was clapping a speech made by one of the film makers. I don't really see why that's an issue. I thought the implication was they applauded one of the film makers for the film, but not the other.

 

[Gramsci]

The Israeli who made the award winning doc with a Palestinian has been called anti Semitic on Israeli TV for these comments. And says he has received death threats.

German minister says she clapped Israeli film-maker, not his Palestinian colleague, at Berlinale

Call for Green politician to resign amid row over politically charged closing ceremony at film festival

www.google.com

And Green minister now says when she was clapping it was for the Israeli not the Palestinian. In Germany this is how to show one is not anti Semitic.

Having read what both the Israeli ( a very brave man.) and the Palestinian said I'm wondering how that can be construed as anti semitism.

German politicians now say they want to make sure this does not happen again.

So anti semitism in Germany is criticising the Israeli state.

The bit with Green minister saying she clapped for only the Israeli is farcical.

It's also borderline racist. To snub a Palestinian in this way when they have , along with an Israeli, made a doc on how Palestinians are being oppressed by Israeli state.

The content of the doc does not matter. Anti semitism equals criticising Israel.

Fortunately in this country this hasn't got any traction. Despite our mainstream politicians and parts of media trying to push this line.

 

[Pickman's model]

The Israeli who made the award winning doc with a Palestinian has been called anti Semitic on Israeli TV for these comments. And says he has received death threats.

German minister says she clapped Israeli film-maker, not his Palestinian colleague, at Berlinale

Call for Green politician to resign amid row over politically charged closing ceremony at film festival

www.google.com

And Green minister now says when she was clapping it was for the Israeli not the Palestinian. In Germany this is how to show one is not anti Semitic.

Having read what both the Israeli ( a very brave man.) and the Palestinian said I'm wondering how that can be construed as anti semitism.

German politicians now say they want to make sure this does not happen again.

So anti semitism in Germany is criticising the Israeli state.

The bit with Green minister saying she clapped for only the Israeli is farcical.

It's also borderline racist. To snub a Palestinian in this way when they have , along with an Israeli, made a doc on how Palestinians are being oppressed by Israeli state.

The content of the doc does not matter. Anti semitism equals criticising Israel.

Fortunately in this country this hasn't got any traction. Despite our mainstream politicians and parts of media trying to push this line.

It's not really borderline racist is it, it's really racist

 

[mojo pixy]

So anti semitism in Germany is criticising the Israeli state.

I think this is the main point isn't it. I think it's a bad law but of course Germany has had a very err special relationship with Jews and anti-semitism, that's all (just about) in living memory. This strange and obviously overcompensating law is still a thing anyone living / working / performing, and especially doing politics, in Germany has to deal with and shouldn't be a surprise.

Nor should the makers of a documentary on Israel/Palestine be surprised at death threats, here, now, given the state of the world and especially the Israel/Palestine bit. Actually though, I think you could make a documentary about anything political in 2024 and get death threats.

 

[teqniq]

This is proper fucked up: