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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

_Russ_ said:
...and from a great many private citizens in a wide range of countries of course,.
You would think in a year that will see many of those countries hold elections, that their leaders might listen to them, perhaps they gamble that a greater proportion of their populace is either into killing Muslims (stops the boats innit) or believes the crap Israel's government and its allies dish out
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Or just don't care like mynmar ,various insurgencys in africa ,hati and Sudan that just aren't as cool as gaza
 
Pickman's model said:
The UK government is his majesty's government not the government of the people of the United Kingdom. To suggest otherwise, as you do, is to fall into the common error of believing the UK government is there to serve the people of the UK and represent their interests
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Isn't that a cop out? Don't the people vote these people in? Same as here?
Don't the MPs have a duty to represent the people in their constituencies who voted for them? I mean....its not as if the King actively selects politicians.
 
TopCat said:
We know this. But no pressure is being applied despite calls for this or that.
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Yes, the UK is applying no pressure. That is why MPs should be demanding that the government ceases supporting the war effort of the State of Israel. This is why there should be Motion debated calling for an end of arms sales and military assistance, demanding that the government use all means at its disposal to push the State of Israel to agree to an immediate ceasefire,
 
PTK said:
Yes, the UK is applying no pressure. That is why MPs should be demanding that the government ceases supporting the war effort of the State of Israel. This is why there should be Motion debated calling for an end of arms sales and military assistance, demanding that the government use all means at its disposal to push the State of Israel to agree to an immediate ceasefire,
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But they won’t. Calling for mps to do this and that is as pointless as the mps calling for this and that.
 
PTK said:
Because, if the State of Israel did not receive military assistance and weapons from the UK and the USA and other states, its war effort would be hampered. The UK is complicit in the slaughter.
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they buy nearly 2% of their kit from UK a massive 41 million quid a year out of a 23 billion dollar budget I doubt whatever we sell them them is going to be irreplaceable
 
TopCat said:
The poll tax was abandoned after an effective non payment campaign, coupled with disturbances and culminating in a huge riot in which the police lost.
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I think that it would be good if the SNP or the Labour Party put a Motion in Parliament demanding that the UK put pressure on the State of Israel to agree to an immediate ceasefire, but such a Motion would not pass, because the government has majority. I think that the debating of such a Motion could boost the movement against the War in the Gaza Strip.

What we need, of course, what could change government policy, is organised working class action. At the least, a boycott of exports of arms to the State of Israel. Better, a boycott of all trade with the State of Israel. How we achieve this as individuals who post on this forum, I do not know. Those who are active in the trades union movement ought to push for such a thing. Perhaps we ought to think about drawing up a motion to submit to union branches, calling for such a thing.
 
Aladdin said:
Isn't that a cop out? Don't the people vote these people in? Same as here?
Don't the MPs have a duty to represent the people in their constituencies who voted for them? I mean....its not as if the King actively selects politicians.
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It's a simple statement of fact. Every mp swears an oath of allegiance to the crown (bar the sf mps). None of them swear to represent the interests of their constituents. Sure, the king does not select politicians. And why does he need to, when they're all - almost all - prepared the rim the royal arse of their own volition?
 
Quick question: have we any reliable info on actual Hamas casualty figures?

I'm guessing not - and given that they're still in the fight after three months, my guess is that any Hamas deaths would be a very small fraction of the overall Gaza death toll.
 
Idris2002 said:
Quick question: have we any reliable info on actual Hamas casualty figures?

I'm guessing not - and given that they're still in the fight after three months, my guess is that any Hamas deaths would be a very small fraction of the overall Gaza death toll.
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I guess it depends what you mean by Hamas.Owen Jones did what I thought was a good piece on this very question.
 
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PTK said:
Yes, the UK is applying no pressure. That is why MPs should be demanding that the government ceases supporting the war effort of the State of Israel. This is why there should be Motion debated calling for an end of arms sales and military assistance, demanding that the government use all means at its disposal to push the State of Israel to agree to an immediate ceasefire,
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Not disagreeing with you here.

Its telling that there are mechanisms to oversee granting of export licences.

The Foreign Affairs Committee has been asking the government questions on this. Its a cross party committee


“The Foreign Secretary’s response to our letter on strategic export controls raises several questions. Given the high level of concern over the conflict between Hamas and Israel, I am surprised that no licence applications have been escalated to the inter-departmental disputes procedures in the last 3 months. It is telling that the FCDO does not answer our question on how many times export licence applications for Israel have been referred to ministers in the last 12 months. If none have been referred, the Government should say so.
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The FCDO and the DBT need to set out more fully how existing licences are being kept under ‘careful review’ and how they will ensure that UK export controls adapt quickly to a rapidly changing situation.

“The FCDO says it is still assessing the interim findings of the ICJ. How long will this take? This work should be progressed urgently, it cannot wait until the full judgment which may be years away.
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FCDO Foreign Commonwealth and Development Office.

DBT Department of Business and Trade

Looks to me that the government are not falling over backwards to find ways to halt arms sales.

It also looks to me that a British government if it really wants to could halt sales.

It does not need a specific extra motion to do this. The bureaucracy to do this is already in place.

The political will is not.
 
Governments often have the bureaucracy in place to do things. Its a matter of pressuring them to do the job they are supposed to be doing.

I see Cameron came out with a load of waffle to the Foreign Affairs Committee.

Reminds me of dealing with local government.

Often there are processes / bureaucracy set up to deal with issues.

If they were followed correctly then things like arms to Israel or any other country with human rights issues would be at least be properly and transparently scrutinised.

Instead the way central and form my experience local government work is that the bureaucracy is in place. Its a matter of making them do it.

These things often do not require new legislation.
 
That this does not happen is why people get so angry about central government and in my experience local government ( on other local bread and butter issues)

Then people are portrayed as being a problem by the governing classes

See excuses by Speaker of House of Commons for example for his actions. Its section of the electorate that are the problem not him
 
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tommers said:
A US soldier immolated himself outside the Israeli embassy in DC yesterday in protest at Israel's actions in Gaza.
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He's an airman and the distinction is an important one (I grew up as the son of a US airman).
www.bbc.co.uk

Air Force man sets himself on fire outside Israeli embassy in Washington DC

A member of the US Air Force is in a critical condition after the incident in Washington on Sunday afternoon.
www.bbc.co.uk

Whenever I hear about acts of self-immolation, I'm reminded of Thich Quang Duc's self-immolation in 1963.
1708941038742.png
en.wikipedia.org

Thích Quảng Đức - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
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tommers said:
A US soldier immolated himself outside the Israeli embassy in DC yesterday in protest at Israel's actions in Gaza.
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Crimethinc has more details

On Sunday, February 25, we received an email from a person who signed himself Aaron Bushnell.

It read, "Today, I am planning to engage in an extreme act of protest against the genocide of the Palestinian people. The below links should take you to a livestream and recorded footage of the event, which will be highly disturbing. I ask that you make sure that the footage is preserved and reported on."

We consulted the Twitch account. The username displayed was “LillyAnarKitty,” and the user icon was a circle A, the universal signifier for anarchism—the movement against all forms of domination and oppression.
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We have since confirmed the identity of Aaron Bushnell. He served in the United States Air Force for almost four years. One of his loved ones described Aaron to us as “a force of joy in our community.” An online post described him as “an amazingly gentle, kind, compassionate person who spends every minute and penny he has helping others. He is silly, makes anyone laugh, and wouldn’t hurt a fly. He is a principled anarchist who lives out his values in everything he does.”
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Let’s admit that the kind of protest activity that has taken place thus far in the United States has not served to compel the US government to compel a halt to the genocide in Gaza. It is an open question what could accomplish that. Aaron’s action challenges us to answer this question—and to answer it differently than he did.

We mourn his passing.
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Saw the video..😥😥 its on middle east eye.

Crying still.

Aaron kept screaming "free Palestine" as he was clearly burning to death.
The fucking policeman who arrives on the scene pulls a gun on him and keeps pointing the gun at him while one other man screams for help and a fire extinguisher. It takes way too long for them to get a fire extinguisher and another person arrives with a first aid box and a police woman walks slowly up with an extinguisher. The policeman keeps a gun pointed at Aaron all that time. 🥺🥺🥺

Aaron clearly states his intent at the beginning of his live stream. And kept calling "Free Palestine" as he was burning to death.

Extremely sad.
Extraordinarily courageous.

Ultimately I hope it does soom good but I suspect a lot of the world is numbed to horror and self sacrifice.
 
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