Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Shower of cunts covering themselves in shit. And I haven't used anything like enough swearwords there.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Protestant equivalent of the Catholic Liberation Theology? Various Popes hated that, too.
Bethlehem pastor issues uncompromising call to UK churches | ICN
On Sunday 18th February 2024 at Bloomsbury Central Baptist Church, in London, The Revd Dr Munther Isaac, pastor of Christmas Evangelical Lutheran Church in Bethlehem, issued an uncompromising call to the UK churches. He said that they are called "to be the church, and to act in costly s...www.indcatholicnews.com
Here is a sermon form the Lutheran Church minister. Must say its full on. I'm not a Christian but have found non conformists are strong on peoples rights.
The Church of England is the established church and so is part of the establishment.
The difference shows.
Thought CH1 might like to read this.
Im not an expert on the different protestant churches.
From his sermon:
THis kind of thing probably gave the head of our established church concerns about meeting him
not a trot
Well-Known Member
So is any form of a ceasefire likely to happen, whatever our parliament thinks or does.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Not really, the good Reverend was just speaking about what he is seeing and hearing in much the same way that the other Palestinian clergy and religious (and those from other nations who are over there at the moment) have been saying. The only doctrinal issue seems to be that the leadership of the Anglican side of things have not stepped up so much.
PTK
Paul Kegan
It is meaningless, though, because it says nothing about the UK's active support for the the State of Israel's military operations.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
teqniq
DisMembered
Whilst our scummy politicians, particularly Labour play truly awful party politics:
news.un.org
Gazans ‘hanging by a thread’, warns WFP
The UN emergency food relief agency (WFP) warned that Gaza is “hanging by a thread”, calling for urgent access to allow it to reach the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians on the verge of famine.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Note that the SNP Motion did not actually call for the government to cease supporting the war effort of the State of Israel. The UK not only exports arms to that state, but has also been providing in the form of RAF overflights of the Gaza Strip.
There is nothing in the SNP Motion about the UK using all possible means to pressure the State of Israel into desisting from violating international humanitarian law.
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SNP Motion.
That this House calls for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and Israel; notes with shock and distress that the death toll has now risen beyond 28,000, the vast majority of whom were women and children; further notes that there are currently 1.5 million Palestinians sheltering in Rafah, 610,000 of whom are children; also notes that they have nowhere else to go; condemns any military assault on what is now the largest refugee camp in the world; further calls for the immediate release of all hostages taken by Hamas and an end to the collective punishment of the Palestinian people; and recognises that the only way to stop the slaughter of innocent civilians is to press for a ceasefire now.
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There is nothing in the SNP Motion about the UK using all possible means to pressure the State of Israel into desisting from violating international humanitarian law.
=
SNP Motion.
That this House calls for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and Israel; notes with shock and distress that the death toll has now risen beyond 28,000, the vast majority of whom were women and children; further notes that there are currently 1.5 million Palestinians sheltering in Rafah, 610,000 of whom are children; also notes that they have nowhere else to go; condemns any military assault on what is now the largest refugee camp in the world; further calls for the immediate release of all hostages taken by Hamas and an end to the collective punishment of the Palestinian people; and recognises that the only way to stop the slaughter of innocent civilians is to press for a ceasefire now.
=
ska invita
back on the other side
Of course not, this is a vaguely interesting side show of British establishment politics feeling a bit awkward... Israel is a force if it's own with only the US with any meaningful influence to stop them.... Of which every signal shows they will not do what is required
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
There were always prominent Protestant Liberation Theologians.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
How Keir Starmer averted Gaza ceasefire vote crisis
A last-minute intervention proved crucial as Starmer faced the biggest rebellion of his leadership
The whole sordid affair summarised.
Speaker was definitely leant on. Starmer visited him personally.
Backbench Labour MPs were not happy with the wording on the amendment. To many caveats in Labour amendment
Labour leadership were thinking of changing tack once other countries had.
So much public pressure on MPs/ Labour party by public meant something had to give.
Starmer comes out of this stronger apparently.
Thing is Starmer / Lammy and the rest of them in leadership did not want to have to do this. This is support of a ceasefire of a most grudging sort. With a lot of caveats.
And Starmer is just following whatever other western governments do.
ska invita
back on the other side
The pride of the flag for a photo to be shared with the news wires via the FO
Just lacks an MP smiling and ceremonially cutting a ribbon
Support ethnic cleansing then drop a crate of aid on the current survivors.
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Aladdin
Well-Known Member
Fuck it. The British establishment is full on supporting Israel. They fucking helped to create it so they're all cow towing and none of them want to be seen to go against Isrsel. But they're supposed to be representing the citizens of the UK. Or at least that's what you would think. Clearly the government is not representing the people of Britain and UK. They along with the church in England are being told how to think with respect to Israel.
Basically it does seem like the government is a puppet for the US & Israel.
Basically it does seem like the government is a puppet for the US & Israel.
Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
They also do great business deals and hospitality.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
tim agricola and othersBethlehem pastor issues uncompromising call to UK churches | ICN
On Sunday 18th February 2024 at Bloomsbury Central Baptist Church, in London, The Revd Dr Munther Isaac, pastor of Christmas Evangelical Lutheran Church in Bethlehem, issued an uncompromising call to the UK churches. He said that they are called "to be the church, and to act in costly s...
Here is a sermon form the Lutheran Church minister. Must say its full on. I'm not a Christian but have found non conformists are strong on peoples rights.
The Church of England is the established church and so is part of the establishment.
The difference shows.
Thought CH1 might like to read this.
Im not an expert on the different protestant churches.
From his sermon:
THis kind of thing probably gave the head of our established church concerns about meeting him
I'm not an expert in Church attitudes and policy on Israel/Palestine, but its not as if the plight of Palestinians has suddenly come to consciousness in protestant churches.
Years ago I was signed up at the Lambeth Country show by a local Quaker pacifist to the Newsletter of the Ecumenical Accompaniers.
They no longer post newsletters out, but I get e-mailings from the World Council of Churches under whose auspices this work continues.
The history is here and goes back to the 2000 intifada. History — EAPPI: Ecumenical Accompaniment Programme in Palestine and Israel
So I'm not surprised that a Lutheran pastor from Bethlehem should lay it on the line.
The Lutherans tend to be progressive in terms of world social concerns anyway, and presumably have concerns for Palestinian Christians, aside from the current war-time horrors.
The mystery is where is the Church of England/Anglican Church in all this.
My reading is that Dr Welby is doing a Keir Starmer and keeping his head down - and forcing his minions to do so also - with an iron fist.
Jerusalem is an embarrassment to Welby for factional reasons. (It is one of the foci of dissent on women bishops, gay clergy, gay marriage - nothing to do with the current mass murder going on in Gaza)
Not only that the Anglican church has in its free-wheeling way has had two prominent fundamentalist clerics working in Israel from opposite wings on the Israel-Palestine question.
Rector of Christ Church, Jerusalem and Head of Christian Mission to the Jews in the early 200os was Tony Higton - here is a sample of his work The Age of Warning is Over
Then again you had the flying opponent of Christian Zionism, Rev Stephen Sizer, currently under a preaching ban following complaints by the Board of Deputies to the Church of England.
I was looking to find samples of Sizer's work - but all the Wikipedia links to his books are dead, but this link remains: With God On Our Side (film) - Wikipedia
To sum up - the Lutherans and others can focus on their response to the Palestine situation, but the Church of England (nominally part of the World Council of Churches after all) is too embroiled in cultures wars - not least involving historical complaints from the Board of Deputies.
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
The pundits are kidding themselves if they think that. It made him look weak/unethical as hell that he felt he had to dirty trick his way out of a rebellion by leaning on the Speaker, and for a technical amendment so mealy-mouthed it only underscores his critics' point about lack of moral fibre. Strategically it was a complete mess, less Sun Tzu than whoopsie do.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
He's a "parliamentary supporter" of LFI. which means he speaks with forked tongue.
andysays
Love and solidarity
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
I keep hearing how LFI supports a "2 state solution", but it seems to me that the much talked about "solution" isn't so much a pipe dream as it is a means of deflecting criticism of British/Global North support for Israel's violence, their continued occupation of Palestinian land, and the illegal Zionist settlements. It also allows our politicians to keep lying to themselves (and us) by telling this story of a "2 state solution". Netanyahu and his Kahanist pals have already signalled their opposition to a "2 state solution". So, why do these groups persist with this lie when it's clear that when you look at the map, there's barely any Palestinian land left? Btw, a one state solution is advocated by the PFLP, DFLP et al.
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CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Just wanted to note that shortly before the embroglio over the vote in the debate yesterday Helen Hayes, MP for Dulwich and West Norwood (ie Brixton East) spoke. For information of SW9/SE5/SE24 readers:
(from Hansard)
5.56pm
Helen Hayes
(Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)
On Sunday I returned from four days in Israel and Palestine as part of a cross-party delegation with Yachad. We met hostage families, displaced Palestinians, NGOs working in Gaza, peace activists on both sides of the conflict, and Israeli and Palestinian official spokespeople. It was a distressing, moving and humbling experience.
The conflict in Israel and Gaza has brought unimaginable horror on Israelis and Palestinians. It has intensified the violent displacement of Palestinians by Israelis in the west bank. In the very short time that I have, at the end of this debate, I want to bring to this House the words of an extraordinary young man, Yotam Kipnis. We met Yotam in the Be’eri kibbutz, which he returned to with us for the first time since 7 October, to visit the home from which his parents were abducted and subsequently murdered by Hamas. As we stood outside the rubble of Yotam’s home, he said “Vengeance is a valid feeling. It is not a valid policy.”
In Israel and Palestine, they talk about the day after this conflict: to get to the day after, we must first have a ceasefire. We must have a ceasefire now, before more atrocities are committed in Rafah. We need a ceasefire so that humanitarian aid can get into Gaza. We need a ceasefire for people like Yotam, who are working for peace. If they can set aside their differences and focus on what really matters—the future that Israelis and Palestinians can build of peace and security—we can put aside our differences in this House tonight and vote for a ceasefire.
--------------------------------------
I didn't know what Yachad was - here is there website Home | Yachad
Note also this from Ms Hayes' local office last year: Report on visit to Palestine, February 2023
(from Hansard)
5.56pm
Helen Hayes
(Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)
On Sunday I returned from four days in Israel and Palestine as part of a cross-party delegation with Yachad. We met hostage families, displaced Palestinians, NGOs working in Gaza, peace activists on both sides of the conflict, and Israeli and Palestinian official spokespeople. It was a distressing, moving and humbling experience.
The conflict in Israel and Gaza has brought unimaginable horror on Israelis and Palestinians. It has intensified the violent displacement of Palestinians by Israelis in the west bank. In the very short time that I have, at the end of this debate, I want to bring to this House the words of an extraordinary young man, Yotam Kipnis. We met Yotam in the Be’eri kibbutz, which he returned to with us for the first time since 7 October, to visit the home from which his parents were abducted and subsequently murdered by Hamas. As we stood outside the rubble of Yotam’s home, he said “Vengeance is a valid feeling. It is not a valid policy.”
In Israel and Palestine, they talk about the day after this conflict: to get to the day after, we must first have a ceasefire. We must have a ceasefire now, before more atrocities are committed in Rafah. We need a ceasefire so that humanitarian aid can get into Gaza. We need a ceasefire for people like Yotam, who are working for peace. If they can set aside their differences and focus on what really matters—the future that Israelis and Palestinians can build of peace and security—we can put aside our differences in this House tonight and vote for a ceasefire.
--------------------------------------
I didn't know what Yachad was - here is there website Home | Yachad
Note also this from Ms Hayes' local office last year: Report on visit to Palestine, February 2023
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
US intelligence has ‘low confidence’ in some of Israel’s UNRWA claims, report says
Intelligence report says some accusations aid workers participated in Hamas attacks credible but could not be independently verified
I saw elsewhere that none of those sacked were on any terrorist register.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
She didn't want to face deselection?
Starmer's passive aggressive attitude to freedom and truth seems to be destroying everything in it's path!
klang
klang
Like the Sea Champion that was carrying a ship load of corn to Aden? The one that the houthis attacked for delivering aid to south yemen....
ska invita
back on the other side
FT reporting this morning possible new restrictions banning protest from where MPs are (surgeries, homes and parliament)... not worth linking as it sounds slightly like might just be kite flying to me, I dont think the cops are short of legislation
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