Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
emanymton
A cat politely sat on the flaming gardener.
I assume most people just ignored them and the shit they come out with.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The problem is Israel will not allow any investigation.
Various reports on Al Jazeera and this one give me impression that IDF are not just looking for Hamas they are attacking the whole population men , women and children.
People are also being subjected to humiliating and degrading treatment which has no connection to military objectives.
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Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
Dahiya doctrine.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Yes. Tried and tested in Lebanon.
It's not even a secret military tactic of Israel/ IDF
What gets me is that our government and opposition regard this as "Israel's right to defend itself"
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I wonder what will happen this time around to Labour MPs who vote for SNP motion without labour amendment.
It wouldn't surprise me if Starmer and co would like to use this as excuse to get rid of some of the more troublesome MPs prior election
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The SNP motion.
I don't think labour are rejecting it out of hand. The change in a few bits has annoyed the SNP
Humza Yousaf 'frustrated' as Labour remove key part of SNP ceasefire motion
HUMZA Yousaf has spoken out after Labour "frustratingly" removed a key part of the SNP's ceasefire motion in their amendment.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Only from the document and not from the zionists' arsenal I suppose
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The Labour party amendment
www.google.com
SNP ceasefire motion vote: Read full Labour amendment backing ‘immediate ceasefire’ - LabourList
Labour is to table an amendment to the Scottish National Party (SNP)’s motion tomorrow, backing an “immediate ceasefire”…
www.google.com
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I found it more than annoying they did this.
As Boris Sprinkler pointed out the IDF aren't that secret about fact that this is something they do. The Dahiya doctrine.
In the case of Gaza they have taken it to an extreme.
Probably Labour friends of Israel got upset about the wording.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Ah yes here is Labour friend of Israel take on a ceasefire:
www.lfi.org.uk
What concerns me about the two state solution is the different meanings of it
There are two.
One is Palestinian state based on pre war 67 borders. With illegal settlers going. A genuine two state solution.
Or
The other is the LFI. Nothing here about what the borders are. And this " demilitarised" Palestinian state?
What does this mean ?
I can't help but think this means the less than a real state of PA in west bank extended to Gaza.
With the settlements already built being facto part of Israel.
This would be what I've read recently is the Israeli liberal view. A "demilitarised " Palestinian "state" .
The far right totally rejects any two state. Maybe the liberal Zionist view is more practical. And almost would achieve the same ends
So in Ilan Pappe view the Open Prison model
This is why I'm not keen on two state solution. As in reality it's not a real state.
Which of course Starmer and LFI know. But they are playing with words.
LFI have decided on behalf of Palestinian people that Hamas is out of the picture.
LFI sets out steps to a sustainable ceasefire
Keir Starmer is right: we urgently need an end to the fighting and a permanent and sustainable ceasefire in Gaza. How do we get there? Hamas must be disarmed and have no role in the future governan…
www.lfi.org.uk
What concerns me about the two state solution is the different meanings of it
There are two.
One is Palestinian state based on pre war 67 borders. With illegal settlers going. A genuine two state solution.
Or
The other is the LFI. Nothing here about what the borders are. And this " demilitarised" Palestinian state?
What does this mean ?
I can't help but think this means the less than a real state of PA in west bank extended to Gaza.
With the settlements already built being facto part of Israel.
This would be what I've read recently is the Israeli liberal view. A "demilitarised " Palestinian "state" .
The far right totally rejects any two state. Maybe the liberal Zionist view is more practical. And almost would achieve the same ends
So in Ilan Pappe view the Open Prison model
This is why I'm not keen on two state solution. As in reality it's not a real state.
Which of course Starmer and LFI know. But they are playing with words.
LFI have decided on behalf of Palestinian people that Hamas is out of the picture.
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Politics.
That's politics for you.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Yes I know
In Lambeth the Green party put forward a ceasefire motion. The ruling New Labour Council did not like it at all.
One of the few Labour Cllrs who supported Green motion is Jewish on the left ( momentum) has attended local PSC rallies and demos. I've seen him. And from what I've heard the Stamer/ New Labour lot are working out how to get rid of him.
This and other more local issues makes me in general sick of "politics"
I'm not even sure now if I want to vote at election.
teqniq
DisMembered
Absolute fuckwit scum:
www.aljazeera.com
US vetoes ceasefire resolution as north Gaza starves
US envoy to UN says Security Council ceasefire resolution harms truce negotiations, as UN pauses aid to northern Strip.
Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
And just hours ago, Israeli air strikes hit a Damascus residential neighborhood. Not a word on BBC or guardian.
Boris Sprinkler
Dont be scared
I missed it on the rolling ticker, but I think it would have at least provoked a headline on its own.
PR1Berske
Alligator in chains by the park gates.
"Ceasefire in Gaza" debate in the House of Commons this afternoon.
SNP motion:
Labour amendment
Government amendment
Liberal Democrat amendment
Will be debated after PMQs this afternoon
SNP motion:
That this House calls for an immediate ceasefire in Gaza and Israel; notes with shock and distress that the death toll has now risen beyond 28,000, the vast majority of whom were women and children; further notes that there are currently 1.5 million Palestinians sheltering in Rafah, 610,000 of whom are children; also notes that they have nowhere else to go; condemns any military assault on what is now the largest refugee camp in the world; further calls for the immediate release of all hostages taken by Hamas and an end to the collective punishment of the Palestinian people; and recognises that the only way to stop the slaughter of innocent civilians is to press for a ceasefire now.
Labour amendment
Leave out from “House” to end and add:
"believes that an Israeli ground offensive in Rafah risks catastrophic humanitarian consequences and therefore must not take place; notes the intolerable loss of Palestinian life, the majority being women and children; condemns the terrorism of Hamas who continue to hold hostages; supports Australia, Canada and New Zealand’s calls for Hamas to release and return all hostages and for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, which means an immediate stop to the fighting and a ceasefire that lasts and is observed by all sides, noting that Israel cannot be expected to cease fighting if Hamas continues with violence and that Israelis have the right to the assurance that the horror of 7 October 2023 cannot happen again; therefore supports diplomatic mediation efforts to achieve a lasting ceasefire; demands that rapid and unimpeded humanitarian relief is provided in Gaza; further demands an end to settlement expansion and violence; urges Israel to comply with the International Court of Justice’s provisional measures; calls for the UN Security Council to meet urgently; and urges all international partners to work together to establish a diplomatic process to deliver the peace of a two-state solution, with a safe and secure Israel alongside a viable Palestinian state, including working with international partners to recognise a Palestinian state as a contribution to rather than outcome of that process, because statehood is the inalienable right of the Palestinian people and not in the gift of any neighbour.”
"believes that an Israeli ground offensive in Rafah risks catastrophic humanitarian consequences and therefore must not take place; notes the intolerable loss of Palestinian life, the majority being women and children; condemns the terrorism of Hamas who continue to hold hostages; supports Australia, Canada and New Zealand’s calls for Hamas to release and return all hostages and for an immediate humanitarian ceasefire, which means an immediate stop to the fighting and a ceasefire that lasts and is observed by all sides, noting that Israel cannot be expected to cease fighting if Hamas continues with violence and that Israelis have the right to the assurance that the horror of 7 October 2023 cannot happen again; therefore supports diplomatic mediation efforts to achieve a lasting ceasefire; demands that rapid and unimpeded humanitarian relief is provided in Gaza; further demands an end to settlement expansion and violence; urges Israel to comply with the International Court of Justice’s provisional measures; calls for the UN Security Council to meet urgently; and urges all international partners to work together to establish a diplomatic process to deliver the peace of a two-state solution, with a safe and secure Israel alongside a viable Palestinian state, including working with international partners to recognise a Palestinian state as a contribution to rather than outcome of that process, because statehood is the inalienable right of the Palestinian people and not in the gift of any neighbour.”
Government amendment
Leave out from “House” to end and add:
“supports Israel’s right to self-defence, in compliance with international humanitarian law, against the terror attacks perpetrated by Hamas; condemns the slaughter, abuse and gender-based violence perpetrated on 7 October 2023; further condemns the use of civilian areas by Hamas and others for terrorist operations; urges negotiations to agree an immediate humanitarian pause as the best way to stop the fighting and to get aid in and hostages out; supports moves towards a permanent sustainable ceasefire; acknowledges that achieving this will require all hostages to be released, the formation of a new Palestinian Government, Hamas to be unable to launch further attacks and to be no longer in charge in Gaza, and a credible pathway to a two-state solution which delivers peace, security and justice for both Israelis and Palestinians; expresses concern at the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and at the prospect of a military offensive in Rafah; reaffirms the urgent need to significantly scale up the flow of aid into Gaza, where too many innocent civilians have died; and calls on all parties to take immediate steps to stop the fighting and ensure unhindered humanitarian access.”
“supports Israel’s right to self-defence, in compliance with international humanitarian law, against the terror attacks perpetrated by Hamas; condemns the slaughter, abuse and gender-based violence perpetrated on 7 October 2023; further condemns the use of civilian areas by Hamas and others for terrorist operations; urges negotiations to agree an immediate humanitarian pause as the best way to stop the fighting and to get aid in and hostages out; supports moves towards a permanent sustainable ceasefire; acknowledges that achieving this will require all hostages to be released, the formation of a new Palestinian Government, Hamas to be unable to launch further attacks and to be no longer in charge in Gaza, and a credible pathway to a two-state solution which delivers peace, security and justice for both Israelis and Palestinians; expresses concern at the humanitarian crisis in Gaza and at the prospect of a military offensive in Rafah; reaffirms the urgent need to significantly scale up the flow of aid into Gaza, where too many innocent civilians have died; and calls on all parties to take immediate steps to stop the fighting and ensure unhindered humanitarian access.”
Liberal Democrat amendment
Leave out from “House” to end and add:
“expresses its devastation at the mounting humanitarian disaster in Gaza with tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians killed, millions displaced and thousands of homes destroyed; calls on the Prime Minister to oppose publicly and at the UN Security Council the proposed IDF offensive in Rafah; further urges Hamas to unconditionally and immediately release the over 100 hostages taken following the deplorable attacks on 7 October 2023; notes the unprecedented levels of illegal settler violence in the Occupied Palestinian Territories left unchecked by the Israeli Government; welcomes the recent sanctions by the UK Government against four extremist Israeli settlers who have committed human rights abuses against Palestinian communities in the West Bank; urges the UK Government to sanction all violent settlers and their connected entities; calls on the UK Government to uphold international law and the judgments of international courts under all circumstances; further notes that the only path to regional security is a two-state solution based on 1967 borders with Hamas not in power; condemns Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu’s repeated assertions that there is no future for a Palestinian state; and further urges the UK Government to call for an immediate bilateral ceasefire in Gaza, which will allow an end to the humanitarian devastation, get the hostages out and provide an opportunity for a political process leading to a two-state solution, providing security and dignity for all peoples in Palestine and Israel.”
“expresses its devastation at the mounting humanitarian disaster in Gaza with tens of thousands of innocent Palestinians killed, millions displaced and thousands of homes destroyed; calls on the Prime Minister to oppose publicly and at the UN Security Council the proposed IDF offensive in Rafah; further urges Hamas to unconditionally and immediately release the over 100 hostages taken following the deplorable attacks on 7 October 2023; notes the unprecedented levels of illegal settler violence in the Occupied Palestinian Territories left unchecked by the Israeli Government; welcomes the recent sanctions by the UK Government against four extremist Israeli settlers who have committed human rights abuses against Palestinian communities in the West Bank; urges the UK Government to sanction all violent settlers and their connected entities; calls on the UK Government to uphold international law and the judgments of international courts under all circumstances; further notes that the only path to regional security is a two-state solution based on 1967 borders with Hamas not in power; condemns Israeli Prime Minister Netanyahu’s repeated assertions that there is no future for a Palestinian state; and further urges the UK Government to call for an immediate bilateral ceasefire in Gaza, which will allow an end to the humanitarian devastation, get the hostages out and provide an opportunity for a political process leading to a two-state solution, providing security and dignity for all peoples in Palestine and Israel.”
Will be debated after PMQs this afternoon
ska invita
back on the other side
this is vaguely interesting i think
interesting because the royals are imagined as staying out of politics
and also interesting because of the idea that the words of William Mountbatten-Windsor have any impact on anyone....
made the front pages of the Times, Daily Mail and Telegraph, so perhaps its messaging for a rightwing british audience?
interesting because the royals are imagined as staying out of politics
and also interesting because of the idea that the words of William Mountbatten-Windsor have any impact on anyone....
made the front pages of the Times, Daily Mail and Telegraph, so perhaps its messaging for a rightwing british audience?
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
Yep. I've been waiting for mainstream media to cover this. Not a word.
ska invita
back on the other side
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
Thanks.. I didnt see it on Sky or BBC news this am.
It's phrased in that Guardian mention as of it is something Israel does every now and then without admission.
Idris2002
canadian girlfriend
It says to me that Prince Charles (he'll always be Prince Charles to me) is already considered a write-off, so Bonny Prince Billy is being groomed as a media star. And I think he probably has the chops to do it - I saw him on one of those David Attenborough shows, talking about the environment, and he sounded like a plausible "looks good on television" media politician type. My immediate thought was that if he actually had to run for the office of head of state, he might actually be able to do it.
But why would they choose this current crisis as the launching pad?
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
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