Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[mojo pixy]

Last thing, more than 20 years ago I wrote a full 26-point plan for exactly how to solve the Israel-Palestine problem. I wrote it for an argument on a forum a bit like this one, where I was being called anti-semitic It was always unrealistic, but I still recall it was a damn good plan.

It's on paper somewhere and I'll never find the original text document - but if I can find the papers, I'll photograph them and post them up.

I can't promise I'll locate it, a lot has happened since 2002 (!) but if I can, I will.

Peace. Shalom. Salaam.


Edit later - nope, lost to time I think. Not in any of the places i thought it might be. Never mind, it was a two-state solution anyway and that's been off the table for a while now. In 2002 it didn't seem impossible - just difficult and unlikely. But now, even 'impossible' seems an understatement.

 

[Pickman's model]

I've read many of the books you've quoted. I'm very realistic about Israel, what it is and importantly, how it behaves. I lived there as I've mentioned but don't go on about it. I did travel all over including days (yes yes only days but they were well spent!) touristing around the west bank. Met a lot of very secular israelis (nearly all my friends and family) also christians and muslims.

I think my posts here have shown me to be very far from a zionist - but I do maintain it's dodgy to demand Israel should as a prerequisite stop being Jewish, despite I accept that might be better in the long run. It's simply not something for the International Left to dictate.

Yeh well I reckon in a few years time the zionists will wish they'd listened to the international left as the future they're building for themselves is going to be bloodier than I think they'll like

 

[Aladdin]

So...Netanyahu told Palestinians to go to Rafah.
Now he is ordering the IDF into the two main camps in Rafah to eliminate Hamas... "in accordance with international law"

 

[Elpenor]

Just caught up.

We used to have an awful Marty poster who sometimes got confused with our lovely Marty poster. Now we have an awful Danny poster who will hopefully fuck off very quickly so he does not get confused with our lovely Danny poster.

 

[dylanredefined]

You're acting like nothing will happen when just about everyone else thinks it well might
What happens when the death toll gets to 50, 75, 100k? Hell,its probably 50k already and there's a lot more dying yet to be done. Sure the brave men of the idf kill women and children like auld pros. But there's a reckoning coming down the line and as corporal Jones said they won't like it up em

From whom?
The reckoning been coming since 48.
Hasn't arrived yet.
Anyone who could stop the Israeli don't care to.

 

[keybored]

We seemed to have acquired a Hasbro troll.

C4u

 

[Pickman's model]

From whom?
The reckoning been coming since 48.
Hasn't arrived yet.
Anyone who could stop the Israeli don't care to.

yeh you'd have been bang on the mark in the summer of 1914 about how there'd be a bit of sabre rattling but any conflict would be limited to the balkans

so: the houthis have been doing their thing in the red sea. that could go somewhere larger. the attack on the americans in jordan, which is probably linked to their support for israel which given the yankee response to the deaths of three reservists could easily lead on to something larger. the egyptians are unhappy about some of the zionist proposals around gaza which they say could conflict with the peace agreement with the zionists. and of course while there may have been no intervention yet things in the future may prove unpredicatable. what's going on in gaza has sparked a range of other results which may lead on to other effects in the future. and of course events in the far east, around taiwan for instance, or the spratlys and other bones of contention could influence what happens in europe (ukraine / russia) and the middle east. the zionist genocide in gaza and their murderous activities in the west bank are destabilising what was already a famously unstable region. who knows how the map might look once all this is over.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I guess we won't see danny40 again. Joined 10.50 yesterday morning, made 42 posts on this thread only between 11am and 6pm, and has now probably gone.

I certainly don't assume good faith with that one.

 

[kabbes]

I guess we won't see danny40 again. Joined 10.50 yesterday morning, made 42 posts on this thread only between 11am and 6pm, and has now probably gone.

I certainly don't assume good faith with that one.

So, times that happen to be 9am to 4pm on an Israeli weekday then, from our unpaid non-shill.

 

[two sheds]

Wouldn't shills be at least somewhat coherent?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

There's even a lunch break in there. Consistent posting from 11am to 2.30 pm then no posting from 2.30 to 4pm then consistent posting from 4pm to 5.46 pm.

Thing is, I think the posts are coherent in their own nasty, racist way. They reflect many of the Israeli government's talking points.

ETA: Last seen 4 minutes ago. It's 2.30, though, so probably lunch time again.

 

[teqniq]

Let's destroy an ambulance with injured people in it because we can. Yet another war crime:

 

[teqniq]

This may end up needing a separate thread but I will put this here for now.

 

[Gramsci]

How the news cycle misses the predominant violence in Israel-Palestine

The uneventful nature of structural violence renders it unfit for coverage compared to kinetic violence. But the two are inextricably linked.

www.972mag.com

Interesting article discussing how media report structural violence and what he calls kinetic violence.

Kinetic being dramatic violence like the Hamas attack on Israel

What gets lost is the context. The less dramatic and so less news worthy structural violence of Israeli state.

This is not all the medias fault. Its how humans receive info.

This reminded me I'm two thirds way through Ilan Pappe The Biggest Prison on Earth. His history of the post 67 occupation of Weat Bank and Gaza

The Biggest Prison on Earth | Oneworld

Shortlisted for the Palestine Book Awards 2017 A powerful, groundbreaking history of the Occupied Territories from one of Israel’s most influential historians From the author of the bestselling study of the 1948 War of Independence comes an incisive look at the Occupied Territories, picking up...

oneworld-publications.com

The first article made it clear to me what his book is about. It is about structural violence.

I have found the book hard going. I now understand why. It is about the details of how oppression of a people is constructed. What he calls a bureaucracy of evil

The devil is in the details of government decisions / bureaucrats making those aspirations work,

On surface it appears rational and legal. Its built up gradually. And its really boring compared to kinetic violence. Of say the 48 Nakba.

This is not going to make it into the news much.

But the 972 article quotes the great Palestinian writer Ghassan Kanafani on the psychological effects of this:

To get a glimpse of what it means for Palestinians to be the victims of structural violence, we can turn to the great Palestinian writer Ghassan Kanafani, who once wrote that “our lives are as a straight line that marches in shame and silence beside the line of our destiny; but the two lie parallel, and shall never meet.” To live in the shadow of a wall, or on the wrong side of a fence, or on the receiving end of a discriminatory system, is to live “in the presence of absence,” to be haunted by the ghost of one’s potential self — the person you would have become were it not for this wall, this fence, this law, this structure. In Kanafani’s telling, the life that Palestinians were meant to live haunts their every footstep. It runs parallel, and in full view of their imagination, a daily reminder and humiliation, next to which they trudge in silence and shame.

This is not bombing people but its destroying their spirit.

Pappe book makes clear that the gradual annexation/ settlement building was always in the minds of leading Israeli political and military figures. Some of whon had been involved in the original Nakba. Settlement and expulsion of some ( but this time not all ) Palestinians in West Bank took place under Labour Zionism. The hard line religious settlers came later.

 

[Gramsci]

This may end up needing a separate thread but I will put this here for now.

That is a moving speech she made. Making parallels between the international support that opposed South African apartheid and the support that a free South Africa is giving to Palestinians International support is necessary for Palestinians

 

[zahir]

This may end up needing a separate thread but I will put this here for now.

She's also going after South Africans fighting for the Israelis.

https://www.middleeastmonitor.com/20240207-south-africans-in-israeli-military-will-be-prosecuted/

South African Foreign Minister Naledi Pandor has warned that South African citizens participating in combat operations with the Israeli occupation army will be prosecuted.

Pandor, according to the Pan-African News Agency (PANA), pointed out that according to the law in South Africa, our citizens are prohibited from participating in combat in mercenary activities, especially in wars against civilians, adding that those who choose this path should know that legal action will be taken against them and they will be prosecuted.

 

[PTK]

COMEDIAN ON PALESTINE CENSORSHIP​

 

[dylanredefined]

yeh you'd have been bang on the mark in the summer of 1914 about how there'd be a bit of sabre rattling but any conflict would be limited to the balkans

so: the houthis have been doing their thing in the red sea. that could go somewhere larger. the attack on the americans in jordan, which is probably linked to their support for israel which given the yankee response to the deaths of three reservists could easily lead on to something larger. the egyptians are unhappy about some of the zionist proposals around gaza which they say could conflict with the peace agreement with the zionists. and of course while there may have been no intervention yet things in the future may prove unpredicatable. what's going on in gaza has sparked a range of other results which may lead on to other effects in the future. and of course events in the far east, around taiwan for instance, or the spratlys and other bones of contention could influence what happens in europe (ukraine / russia) and the middle east. the zionist genocide in gaza and their murderous activities in the west bank are destabilising what was already a famously unstable region. who knows how the map might look once all this is over.

Starting WW3 isn't going to help.

 

[Pickman's model]

Starting WW3 isn't going to help.

No indeed but I think many of us are of the view that it's already underway.

 

[teqniq]

 

[Aladdin]

Not found

 

[teqniq]

.

Not found

I know, it's completely bizarre. It's a tweeet from this guy but it just won't display. Other tweets are fine.:

https://twitter.com/AbujomaaGaza

 

[magneze]

Screenshot with alt-text would be better.

 

[teqniq]

Screenshot with alt-text would be better.

It's a vid

 

[teqniq]

 

[magneze]

It's a vid

If you post multiple screenshots then I can make into a flipbook?

 

[teqniq]

If you post multiple screenshots then I can make into a flipbook?

What you can do, if you're actually interested is go to his homepage with the link I provided and scoll down. It's really very odd that it won't display here.

 

[Aladdin]

What you can do, if you're actually interested is go to his homepage with the link I provided and scoll down. It's really very odd that it won't display here.

How many posts down is the one you quoted?

I'm asking because every post he has shows videos marked sensitive content.. forgive me but I've watched 1000s of videos from instagram showing the horror of what has been ongoing for the past 4 months. I need to know which video you are referring to?

 

[teqniq]

How many posts down is the one you quoted?

I'm asking because every post he has shows videos marked sensitive content.. forgive me but I've watched 1000s of videos from instagram showing the horror of what has been ongoing for the past 4 months. I need to know which video you are referring to?

The one that says this:

'






https://twitter.com/AbujomaaGaza


Good morning | Day 126 into the continuous #Israeli_genocide in #Gaza! Important updates..'

 

[two sheds]

Ex-Israeli PM makes devastating condemnation of Netanyahu’s war in Gaza

Exclusive: Ehud Olmert tells The Independent that the 'arrogance' of his successor led to catastrophic security failures that allowed the bloody Hamas attack and that continuing an untenable military mission while hostages are still being held would be ‘absolutely unforgivable’

www.independent.co.uk

A former prime minister of Israel has accused Benjamin Netanyahu of needlessly prolonging the Gaza offensive and blocking the path to peace while kidnapped hostages are left to die.

In a scathing condemnation, Ehud Olmert charged that Mr Netanyahu’s “arrogance” and “manipulation” had led to catastrophic security failures, allowing the Hamas attack which triggered the current conflict.

He also warned that right-wing “messianics and extremists” brought into Israel’s governing coalition by the prime minister, are blocking the vital need for a settlement and have plans to cleanse Palestinians from their vision of a “Greater Israel”.

Mr Olmert’s strident criticism came as Mr Netanyahu snubbed the latest international attempt at a ceasefire, declaring that the war will continue until complete victory. Antony Blinken, the US secretary of state, left his fifth visit to the Middle East in the last four months with relations between the Israeli government and Washington reportedly at their worst since the conflict began.

Promising, whether it will change anything though ...