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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

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19:00 News bulletin, Radio 4, Friday 26 January 2024.

Report on ICJ ruling on Gaza Strip.

Comments by spokesperson for State of Israel, the defendant, broadcast, but no comments by the spokesperson for complainant, the Republic of South Africa, or by spokesperson for the State of Palestine.
 
agricola said:
If anyone wants to read a not surprising and unrealistic approach:

www.thejc.com

This ICJ compromise means Israel will continue its honourable quest for justice

Unless the international judges address Hamas war crimes, it will deserve no respect
www.thejc.com www.thejc.com
Click to expand...

"Notwithstanding newspaper headlines, there have been fewer civilian deaths in Gaza, and a lower ratio of civilian to combatant causalities, than in any modern war in history."

Would have been nice to see some backup for this.
 
8ball said:
"Notwithstanding newspaper headlines, there have been fewer civilian deaths in Gaza, and a lower ratio of civilian to combatant causalities, than in any modern war in history."

Would have been nice to see some backup for this.
Click to expand...

There is no backup for anything in the article, from that claim to the claim that this is how the US and UK militaries behave, and especially to the demand that the ICJ must address Hamas war crimes - which he knows is impossible because Hamas are not a state.
 
agricola said:
There is no backup for anything in the article, from that claim to the claim that this is how the US and UK militaries behave, and especially to the demand that the ICJ must address Hamas war crimes - which he knows is impossible because Hamas are not a state.
Click to expand...
The number of civilians killed in the current war in the Gaza Strip in three months is at least forty times greater, per capita, than the number of civilians killed in the war in Ukraine in twenty-three months, according to my calculations.

As for civilian to military deaths: it has been claimed that 9,000 members of Hamas have been killed, and that there have been 30,000 deaths, so that would make a ratio of 2:1 civilian to military, assuming that all members of Hamas are military (which they are not, as it has a civilian wing)
 
8ball said:
"Notwithstanding newspaper headlines, there have been fewer civilian deaths in Gaza, and a lower ratio of civilian to combatant causalities, than in any modern war in history."

Would have been nice to see some backup for this.
Click to expand...

It goes hand-in-hand with the narrative that Hamas is in every hospital, school, police station and home. Nobody is really innocent, even the kids because they are all indoctrinated. Nearly everyone by Israeli standards is a combatant, and so if for each 'combatant' death there were only three or four 'non-combatant' deaths, that's pretty decent compared to eg. the blitz

This regime keeps blowing my mind with the depth of its cynicism and dishonesty. It's actually tempting to reach for the word evil.
 
agricola said:
There is no backup for anything in the article, from that claim to the claim that this is how the US and UK militaries behave, and especially to the demand that the ICJ must address Hamas war crimes - which he knows is impossible because Hamas are not a state.
Click to expand...

I believe Nazi war crimes were addressed in the past, and the Nazis were not a State.
 
mojo pixy said:
Nearly everyone by Israeli standards is a combatant, and so if for each 'combatant' death there were only three or four 'non-combatant' deaths, that's pretty decent compared to eg. the blitz
Click to expand...

With the stuff coming out of Israel I find it hard to tell the more orthodox views from what even within Israel would be considered an extreme view tbf.
 
More than one per cent of the population of the Gaza Strip has been killed since last October, whereas slightly less than one per cent of the population of Britain was killed in the six years of the Second World War
 
mojo pixy said:
It goes hand-in-hand with the narrative that Hamas is in every hospital, school, police station and home. Nobody is really innocent, even the kids because they are all indoctrinated. Nearly everyone by Israeli standards is a combatant, and so if for each 'combatant' death there were only three or four 'non-combatant' deaths, that's pretty decent compared to eg. the blitz

This regime keeps blowing my mind with t
Click to expand...
The Blitz was not a war, it was part of a war. Of the roughly 400,000 residents of Britain who died in the Second World War, about 10% - 40,000 died in the Blitz, and about 70,000 civilians died in total.
 
PTK said:
I think that you will find that Nazi Germany was a state, that was recognised by other states.
Click to expand...

The status of Hamas is squabbled over. Sub-state actor / non-state actor. They certainly seem to think they are a Government, at least.
But then that muddiness is part of the point of proxies.
 
8ball said:
The status of Hamas is squabbled over. Sub-state actor / non-state actor. They certainly seem to think they are a Government, at least.
But then that muddiness is part of the point of proxies.
Click to expand...
Well, Hamas was elected to be the ruling party in the Palestinian Authority, but the USA, UK, and others conspired to exclude it.
There is no reason why individual wrongdoers could not be prosecuted via the Inernational Criminal Court, which does prosecute non-state actors.
 
mojo pixy said:
It goes hand-in-hand with the narrative that Hamas is in every hospital, school, police station and home. Nobody is really innocent, even the kids because they are all indoctrinated. Nearly everyone by Israeli standards is a combatant, and so if for each 'combatant' death there were only three or four 'non-combatant' deaths, that's pretty decent compared to eg. the blitz

This regime keeps blowing my mind with the depth of its cynicism and dishonesty. It's actually tempting to reach for the word evil.
Click to expand...

Indeed, but as they've repeatedly said the government of Gaza is Hamas.

That means that nurses, paramedics, teachers in infants schools, security guards at hospitals, university faculty members, refuse collectors and so on are all "Hamas", and there is a Hamas presence in every school, police station, hospital, library, and sewage facility.
 
agricola said:
Indeed, but as they've repeatedly said the government of Gaza is Hamas.

That means that nurses, paramedics, teachers in infants schools, security guards at hospitals, university faculty members, refuse collectors and so on are all "Hamas", and there is a Hamas presence in every school, police station, hospital, library, and sewage facility.
Click to expand...
And now it seems that the government of South Africa works for Hamas.
 
PTK said:
The Blitz was not a war, it was part of a war. Of the roughly 400,000 residents of Britain who died in the Second World War, about 10% - 40,000 died in the Blitz, and about 70,000 civilians died in total.
Click to expand...

What we're seeing in Gaza is part of a war.
 
Sue said:
According to the Guardian:

'Itamar Ben-Gvir, Israel’s security minister responded to Friday’s ICJ ruling by tweeting: “Hague Shmague”.'

www.theguardian.com

Medical services at Gaza’s largest functioning health facility collapse amid intense fighting in Khan Younis, warns MSF – as it happened

This blog is now closed
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com

:mad:
Click to expand...
Even by the incredibly low standards of Israeli politicians, Ben-Gvir really is a proper cartoon villain.

Anyway, coming on this thread to mention that Final Straw Radio did an interview with an Israeli draft refuser from Mesarvot last week - skip to 27 minutes in if you only want to hear that bit, although the interview about the Virginia hunger strike is also worth a listen if you have the time:

Hunger Strike at Red Onion + Military Refuser in Israel | The Final Straw Radio Podcast

thefinalstrawradio.noblogs.org thefinalstrawradio.noblogs.org
 
Raheem said:
Still nothing, although they've added a story about Sky News apologising for anti-Israel bias. So it can't be that they've lost the ftp password.
Click to expand...
Nearly midnight and still nothing. They've now added a story about a Palestinian "badge" at a primary school.
 
8ball said:
"Notwithstanding newspaper headlines, there have been fewer civilian deaths in Gaza, and a lower ratio of civilian to combatant causalities, than in any modern war in history."

Would have been nice to see some backup for this.
Click to expand...
How many civilian casualties in the Falklands then, to give just one example?
 
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