SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Front page of the guardian website.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
Front page of the guardian website.
zedr
new but not *that* new
BBC reporting it as a pause. UNRWA Hamas attack claims: UK becomes latest country to pause funding for agency
PTK
Paul Kegan
The point I have been making to local politicians is that how is it that they issued statements of support for the people of Ukraine, but they refuse to issue similar statements with respect to Gaza, when the proportion of civilian deaths is about 40 times higher.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
A fucking pause.
We're not starving you, we've just put your dinner on indefinite hiatus. And you might want to pause any injuries or medical conditions until we've unpaused medicine. To help you avoid injury, you may wish to avoid the following unsafe areas of Gaza:
1. All of them
E2a: Israel has already said they'll not let UNRWA operate in Gaza so the funding thing is irrelevant anyway. The announcements from the UK, US, Canada etc are just an expression of support for this latest acceleration of the genocide.
We're not starving you, we've just put your dinner on indefinite hiatus. And you might want to pause any injuries or medical conditions until we've unpaused medicine. To help you avoid injury, you may wish to avoid the following unsafe areas of Gaza:
1. All of them
E2a: Israel has already said they'll not let UNRWA operate in Gaza so the funding thing is irrelevant anyway. The announcements from the UK, US, Canada etc are just an expression of support for this latest acceleration of the genocide.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
Without Hamas you could have gone on holiday to Gaza. Like you could in all those decades before Hamas took over, when Palestinians weren't allowed to operate an airport, or control their own ports or land borders.
PTK
Paul Kegan
This sort of thing would not be allowed on the telly in the UK, thank cosmos. This is a line I have heard pushed from apologists, that if it were not for Hamas the Gaza Strip would be as wealthy as Dubai, what with all that aid that is going in. It ignores the fact that the territory has almost no resources, that many of the people there are unemployed, and that without the aid people would starve and there would be hardly any education or medical services.
zedr
new but not *that* new
its not that irrelevant. UNRWA works in the west bank which is also experiencing a dramatic escalation in settler violence. its part of the wider movement to make Palestinian lives as miserable as possible.
its fucking bleak. UNRWA has always been a plaster over a gaping wound but taking it off will only cause more harm.
think it's telling that ITV literally filmed a civilian being shot by an Israeli soldier which is not enough to stop funding and arming the Israeli ministry, but this rumour about 12 people who worked for UNRWA is enough to pull humanitarian aid. don't know what else I'd expect tho...
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Started reading about 67 and occupation of West Bank and Gaza. Moshe Dayan at one point in Israeli government discussions about what to do with the Palestinians said out that expulsion to refugee camps was cost free option for Israel as UNRWA took the responsibility.
So UNRWA all these years have been doing Israel a favour. ( not that Im criticising the work they do)
That does not stop Israeli governments and politicians lambasting anything to do with UN.
SpookyFrank
A cheap source of teeth for aquarium gravel
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Yes, it's as much about what isn't reported as what is. 174 people were killed in Gaza yesterday. That's just not a story any more in any of the UK press (except for maybe the Morning Star). Instead of starting with that number every day on any report about anything to do with Gaza, reporting on the actual killing going on right this second is buried.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It is brazen, isn't it? The day after a court ordered Israel to allow in humanitarian aid, an excuse is found to defund humanitarian aid.
In case it wasn't already clear, every country that has suspended funding for UNRWA over this is complicit with genocide.
Lurdan
old wave
A small link but right at the top of the Guardian front page just now:
And scrolling down the BBC front page there is:
If this particular criticism of the way the "narrative is being framed" really is so vital perhaps it could be "framed" slightly more accurately.
Here by contrast is one of the surviving Palestinian journalists in Gaza yesterday. She seems to have entirely failed to grasp the opportunity the ICJ ruling has presented to "reframe the narrative".
Text of a series of x-tweets by Hind Khoudary @Hind_Gaza
Link to her x-twitter account
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teqniq
DisMembered
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'm not sure what point you're trying to make. It's not surprising that the view from inside Gaza is one of cynicism and despair. How else are they going to be? She's probably right. So what do we do with that?
A small link but right at the top of the Guardian front page just now:
And scrolling down the BBC front page there is:
If this particular criticism of the way the "narrative is being framed" really is so vital perhaps it could be "framed" slightly more accurately.
Here by contrast is one of the surviving Palestinian journalists in Gaza yesterday. She seems to have entirely failed to grasp the opportunity the ICJ ruling has presented to "reframe the narrative".
The downgrading of the ICJ ruling to well below the UNRWA story in terms of importance is real enough across the UK media.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Portugal normally follows the EU politically as does a lot of its media so a pleasant surprise from an unlikely source.Their balance: big fuck off article on the EJC ruling, small sidebar on the UNRWA story. The reverse of the likes of the UK Times and BBC.
100 days.
Lurdan
old wave
Perfectly true - but :
1. Arguing the story is 'downgraded' fine. Arguing it's been given insufficient prominence fine. Saying it's not there on websites, when visibly it is, is ridiculous. And hardly inspires confidence in the point being made.
2. There are endless opportunities to point to ways in which "narratives" are "framed". Questioning the positioning of stories on a website - as opposed to say reading them and pointing out what's wrong with them - is IMO a very small point indeed.
3. Newspapers, like the Guardian and Times, are a relatively small element of 'the UK media'. If they consume news at all more people do so from TV broadcasts and social media than from newspapers, particularly paywalled ones like The Times.
But then there is this:
Her failure to appreciate the significance of the ICJ judgement is because of 'cynicism and despair'? Are you for fucking real?
How can I put this politely. Perhaps she just doesn't agree with the idea that the ICJ interim ruling is 'game changing'.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Well imo you're wrong about that. Also, the BBC is one of the worst culprits when it comes to burying important stories about Gaza, so it's not just The Times. The Times was simply an example given. And it is correct that they left it off their front page for the whole of yesterday. Your post seemingly justifying or excusing that omission was bizarre.
Meanwhile, trying to make your point using the tweets of someone from Gaza was a pretty low thing to do. Who here has been going on about the ICJ ruling being a 'game changer'? That's a crap straw man.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Looking at Hind Khoudary twitter and looks to me her frustration with ICJ ruling is that it fell short of ruling for a ceasefire.
She also says she loves South Africa for taking the case.
She reposts this pointing out ICJ ruled that Russia desist in military action in Ukraine
Mohammed El Kurd is a Palestinian writer and poet.
She also says she loves South Africa for taking the case.
She reposts this pointing out ICJ ruled that Russia desist in military action in Ukraine
Mohammed El Kurd is a Palestinian writer and poet.
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Cloo
Banana for scale
gsv has been (with great restraint) telling a cousin he otherwise likes to stop sending him videos he thinks will change his mind on Israel. I am struck by the fact that no one has been able to present anything that would make me think the scale of Israel's attacks on Gaza is justified. All I see is people telling me how I should feel about it, or that because they feel that way about it, I ought to feel the same way too. 'But October 7th was hideous so Israel can't be expected to hold back', 'But Jews experienced the Holocaust so we can't commit genocide' (seriously, some people are trying to push that as a line), 'Yes, it's awful but Hamas need to be stopped at any cost', 'Yes, Netanyahu is awful and he'll be dealt with later, but for now we have to unite and stand with Israel because the world is against Jews'. These are all excuses. None of these are justifications.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
TBF that was a different set of circumstances - the ICJ wasn't asked (and still hasnt been IIRC) to rule whether the Russian invasion of Ukraine was genocidal, they were asked to rule whether what had happened in Donetsk and Luhansk between 2014 and 2022 was genocidal, given that was why Russia said they had to carry out the SMO.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I think the best argument for those people is to point to the fact that this sort of thing clearly does not work in its stated aims - Israel has been applying force to Hamas in the same sort of way as this and every time it gets stronger afterwards, whilst Israel gets weaker. It is, to borrow something John Oliver said, akin to believing that the secret to long term weight loss can be found by eating ones way to the bottom of a giant packet of M&Ms.
ska invita
back on the other side
Im not sure about that Hamas are going to be pretty fucked without Gaza existing
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It is grotesque that so far the only real world effect of the ruling has been the defunding of UNRWA.
Until we have non-Israeli evidence, we should treat these accusations with giant scepticism. There may be something in it. Out of the 30,000 workers 12 may have helped Hamas. Still doesn't justify defunding. And of course, if it is true then Israel presenting it yesterday is no accident.
Also worth remembering that more than 150 UNRWA staff have been killed by Israel.
PTK
Paul Kegan
Hamas exists on the West Bank, too.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
He's very good. Has spoken at all the rallies in London.
The interviewer is typical of UK BBC type interviewers. He has his line, that Israel has the right to defend itself, and can't listen to anything that contradicts that. Like many interviewers before him, comes across as ignorant and dogmatic.
PTK
Paul Kegan
If, as the interviewer says, this means a change to the way things have been done by the IDF, then this implies that the IDF has been acting in a genocidal way.
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