Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Cloo]

gsv has been speaking to various people at synagogue and has managed to get looped in with what I guess you could call the 'doves' block of people who are trying to get together a group within the synagogue of people seeking a ceasefire - as he suspected, a lot of people want to, a lot of people feel awkward about admitting it because they don't how people lean and they are worried about creating conflict. The feeling is that most people in our synagogue are probably doveishly-inclined, but we have to create an atmosphere where people can talk about it.

The head rabbi has had to walk a very difficult tightrope, I am pretty sure he would like to outright condemn Israel's action but as the head of a 2000+ people congregation I understand why he can't really do that without fracturing it, but some of the more junior rabbinic staff are willing and able to be more forthright.

 

[TopCat]

People will be pleased to know the EU is looking for a solution in the Middle East.

'Don't worry,' EU foreign affairs chief tells Ukrainians as ministers focus on Middle East​

Arriving at the foreign affairs’ meeting this morning in Brussels, EU foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell, said: “The fact that we are engaged [in] looking for a solution in the Middle East doesn’t mean that we are not continuing supporting Ukraine.”

 

[ska invita]

gsv has been speaking to various people at synagogue and has managed to get looped in with what I guess you could call the 'doves' block of people who are trying to get together a group within the synagogue of people seeking a ceasefire - as he suspected, a lot of people want to, a lot of people feel awkward about admitting it because they don't how people lean and they are worried about creating conflict. The feeling is that most people in our synagogue are probably doveishly-inclined, but we have to create an atmosphere where people can talk about it.

The head rabbi has had to walk a very difficult tightrope, I am pretty sure he would like to outright condemn Israel's action but as the head of a 2000+ people congregation I understand why he can't really do that without fracturing it, but some of the more junior rabbinic staff are willing and able to be more forthright.

not to dismiss the substance of your post but too late for a ceasefire isnt? way beyond that 'demand' now
not sure what the most powerful next thing to 'demand' is...
and maybe a different demand might land better with the congregation?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

not to dismiss the substance of your post but too late for a ceasefire isnt? way beyond that 'demand' now
not sure what the most powerful next thing to 'demand' is...
and maybe a different demand might land better with the congregation?

Can it ever be too late to call for a ceasefire?

Israel could stop killing people and withdraw from Gaza today if they chose to.

 

[ska invita]

Can it ever be too late to call for a ceasefire?

Israel could stop killing people and withdraw from Gaza today if they chose to.

point taken... what i meant was the actual bombing etc is nearly complete, they've effectively destroyed the lot... the next stage is occupation and subjugation of the survivors

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Their unstated aim is to destroy Gaza and effect a genocide there. They're making progress on that.

But their stated aims are to destroy Hamas and free the hostages. They are failing catastrophically in those aims. They've managed to kill more hostages than they've liberated so far.

It appears that most Israelis don't care too much about the morality of the unstated aims. But how long can they continue to fail in their stated aims and maintain support?

 

[Pickman's model]

Their unstated aim is to destroy Gaza and effect a genocide there. They're making progress on that.

But their stated aims are to destroy Hamas and free the hostages. They are failing catastrophically in those aims. They've managed to kill more hostages than they've liberated so far.

It appears that most Israelis don't care too much about the morality of the unstated aims. But how long can they continue to fail in their stated aims and maintain support?

do you remember the wmd in iraq and even though the war was deeply unpopular successive governments kept at it for many years? so i reckon there's still some mileage in the zionists' ability to carry out its genocide in gaza and assaults on the palestinians in the west bank. we are talking about a deeply racist country, not just a racist government, here

 

[Cloo]

not to dismiss the substance of your post but too late for a ceasefire isnt? way beyond that 'demand' now
not sure what the most powerful next thing to 'demand' is...
and maybe a different demand might land better with the congregation?

Well, it's more than that, I was using that as shorthand for 'generally supporting Palestinians and wanting peaceful solutions and not accepting Israel's excuses' - you have to understand it's very hard for people to talk about any aspect of it, even if they have a strong suspicion most people in the community, or at least quite a large number, are with them on this.

 

[agricola]

Fantasy Island:

The Israeli foreign minister, Israel Katz, has suggested that Palestinians could be housed on an artificial island in the Mediterranean, according to sources at the meeting of EU ministers in Brussels.

It is understood that Katz presented a video on the concept to the 27 EU foreign ministers as an alternative to the two-state solution.

He told them the video referred to a plan made some years ago when he was a transport minister.

The intervention has caused dismay in Brussels where the EU representatives were meeting as part of a mission to lay the ground for a “comprehensive peace plan”.

They also heard from foreign ministers from Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia.

 

[ska invita]

Well, it's more than that, I was using that as shorthand for 'generally supporting Palestinians and wanting peaceful solutions and not accepting Israel's excuses' - you have to understand it's very hard for people to talk about any aspect of it, even if they have a strong suspicion most people in the community, or at least quite a large number, are with them on this.

apologies if my post came across as eyerolling....i find the whole thing blood boiling...

 

[Pickman's model]

Fantasy Island:

The entire zionist political class could be rehoused on one of the south shetland islands along with all the zionists who oppose a just settlement for the Palestinians.

 

[Duncan2]

The entire zionist political class could be rehoused on one of the south shetland islands along with all the zionists who oppose a just settlement for the Palestinians.

If Mr Balfour were alive no doubt he would declare that he has changed his mind.

 

[agricola]

The entire zionist political class could be rehoused on one of the south shetland islands along with all the zionists who oppose a just settlement for the Palestinians.

 

[Pickman's model]

Given the barren nature of the ssi I think the zionists would recant their opposition to a national homeland for the Palestinians within days if not hours of their arrival at 62º south

 

[Gramsci]

People will be pleased to know the EU is looking for a solution in the Middle East.

'Don't worry,' EU foreign affairs chief tells Ukrainians as ministers focus on Middle East​

Arriving at the foreign affairs’ meeting this morning in Brussels, EU foreign policy chief, Josep Borrell, said: “The fact that we are engaged [in] looking for a solution in the Middle East doesn’t mean that we are not continuing supporting Ukraine.”

One of the things that annoys me about Ukraine / Palestine is that its taken as a given by politicians like this that Ukraine is opposing occupation and everything possible must be done to aid it.

Zionists have spent last 75 fucking years occupying/ ethnically cleansing Palestine and all someone like Josep Borrell can say on that is "looking for a solution"

Its like hes apologizing for some of his time being taken up with the "middle east" and he sounds like he would prefer to aid Ukraine

Its reading this kind of thing that makes my blood boil.

Its not that complicated. Any reading of the history of Palestine and its the Zionists who are the occupiers. If Ukrainians have a right to resist and be given support so do Palestinians.

 

[Bingoman]

Fantasy Island:

Wow ethnic cleansing

 

[Gramsci]

Started reading the sequel to the Israeli Ilan Pappe book on the ethnic cleansing of Palestine.

The Biggest Prison on Earth

Shortlisted for the Palestine Book Awards 2017 A powerful, groundbreaking history of the Occupied Territories from one of Israel's most influential...

www.simonandschuster.com

Israel success in 67 meant it controlled West Bank and Gaza.

Ilan Pappe had access to minutes of meetings of the government. The success led to discussion of what to do with this new land.

West Bank in particular had been in sights of Zionists.

To cut a long story short the leading mainstream government Zionists had no intention of giving up this land.

The internal discussion was how to stay but pretend this was not the case. What comes across is the contempt the ruling elites had for US. Supposedly their main supporter.

One way was to talk bullshit whilst incrementally taking over land in West Bank. Saying will leave when a full peace deal is finalised.

Which never happens.

The Americans were aware of the difference between what was said publicly and what Israel were starting to do to change "facts on the ground".

And none of this was done by the hard right in Israel.

 

[TopCat]

21 IDF blown up this morning.

 

[Pickman's model]

21 IDF blown up this morning.

Turned out nice again

 

[Pickman's model]

.

 

[TopCat]

Turned out nice again

I can’t find any compassion for them. You dish it out, eat it up.

 

[teqniq]

It may have been 'friend;y fire':

Rejection of two-state solution 'unacceptable' - UN

Israel's rejection of the idea of a two-state solution with the Palestinians is unacceptable and could prolong the war in Gaza, UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres said.

www.rte.ie

 

[TopCat]

It may have been 'friend;y fire':

Rejection of two-state solution 'unacceptable' - UN

Israel's rejection of the idea of a two-state solution with the Palestinians is unacceptable and could prolong the war in Gaza, UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres said.

www.rte.ie

Reportedly a Palestinian fighter attacked a nearby tank with an RPG and this caused the explosives the IDF were about to blow up a building with to detonate.

 

[Pickman's model]

It may have been 'friend;y fire':

Rejection of two-state solution 'unacceptable' - UN

Israel's rejection of the idea of a two-state solution with the Palestinians is unacceptable and could prolong the war in Gaza, UN Secretary General Antonio Guterres said.

www.rte.ie

They're very post-heroic

 

[teqniq]

This is pretty impressive and I'm amazed they didn't cut her off:

 

[kabbes]

“Good for them.”

This. This is how you reject hegemonic constructions of “the economy” as some tangible precious thing that takes precedent over lives and suffering. Just confront it head on.

 

[Bannerrefuggee]

This is pretty impressive and I'm amazed they didn't cut her off:

That was great. She totally owned it.

Is there any place else we can see it?

 

[two sheds]

I wonder whether she'll be charged with supporting terrorism.

 

[Jeff Robinson]

An impressive iron fist performance there

 

[two sheds]

"the worst incident in Gaza since October 7"

IDF says 21 soldiers killed in the worst incident in Gaza since October 7

Hamas terrorists fire anti-tank missile at buildings rigged with explosives near border with Israel ahead of demolition in efforts to clear area from threats to Israeli communities; fire triggers mass explosion, killing troops

www.ynetnews.com