Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Ax^]

*gets out the list


hate to break it to you but you've been on it for a while


**join date 2001

 

[Gramsci]

A single unitary state is one of those ideas that sounds so good, it's hard to imagine why they aren't rushing to implement. The problem is that the main raison d'etre for Israel's existence is that it is a Jewish state. A homeland for an ethnic/religous group that has some justification for viewing itself as one of the most persecuted in history. There are currently 9.5 million Israeli citizens of whom about 1.6 million are Arabs. 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank and 2 million in Gaza means that Arabs in a unified Israel would be roughly half the population and Israel's unique Jewish status would be lost in a couple of generations (the Palestinians have larger families) This also doesn't count the 2-2.5 million living in Jordan/Lebanon where they're still not citizens 75 years later. Just not happening I'm afraid.

Historically partition did not work either. The original UN partition plan left the Zionists with a problem. To many Palestinians would live in the new proposed borders of the Israeli state in their view. As the Israeli historian Ilan Pappe points out Zionism is land plus demographics. That is its raison d'etre in practise.

Thus Zionist para military groups - the mainstream one being the Haganah - embarked on Plan Dalet - the organized expulsion of Palestinians from their land and homes. A leading light in this organized expulsion of Palestinians was David Ben Gurion.

This expulsion , reading Ilan Pappe work, was done by for example Haganah surrounding a Palestinian village. Separating men from women. Executing on the spot Palestinian men considered trouble makers and then putting the rest out of their homes onto the road. Villages were often blown up afterwards to make sure they could not come back. After State of Israel was formally set up the stolen Palestinian land was transferred to the Jewish National Fund to allocate to Jews.

If you think that is justified by the fact of Jewish persecution over the centuries fair enough. I have problems with it.

The One State solution is supported by Israeli Jews like Pappe who grew up in Israel and through their own research found what Pappe calls the myths of Israel he was taught growing up were not true.

It might be a minority view in Israel but its certainly not one to be dismissed. The British historian Tony Judt also came to support the One state solution and got a lot of stick for it.

It might be utopian considering the present situation but to right wrongs and make the land a place where Israeli Jews and Palestinians can live side by side it might be the only option in the end to stop the conflict.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

Vile tory rhetoric.

 

[teqniq]

Hmmmm... why would they ignore it and then deny being warned? Pretty epic fuckup imo.

Egypt intelligence official says Israel ignored repeated warnings of ‘something big’

Cairo official says Israel focused on West Bank instead of Gaza; Egypt's spy chief said to warn PM of 'terrible operation,' Netanyahu's office denies

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Raheem]

Hmmmm... why would they ignore it and then deny being warned? Pretty epic fuckup imo.

Egypt intelligence official says Israel ignored repeated warnings of ‘something big’

Cairo official says Israel focused on West Bank instead of Gaza; Egypt's spy chief said to warn PM of 'terrible operation,' Netanyahu's office denies

www.timesofisrael.com

I suspect this is just about journalism. Think the Egyptian guy said "we had warned them" meaning generally, rather than about a specific event. An Israeli journalist then asked about whether there had been a specific warning and reported the answer as a denial, even though there had been nothing to deny.

I think that's probably it, anyway.

 

[teqniq]

I suspect this is just about journalism. Think the Egyptian guy said "we had warned them" meaning generally, rather than about a specific event. An Israeli journalist then asked about whether there had been a specific warning and reported the answer as a denial, even though there had been nothing to deny.

I think that's probably it, anyway.

Seems more specific:

 

[Artaxerxes]

Hmmmm... why would they ignore it and then deny being warned? Pretty epic fuckup imo.

Egypt intelligence official says Israel ignored repeated warnings of ‘something big’

Cairo official says Israel focused on West Bank instead of Gaza; Egypt's spy chief said to warn PM of 'terrible operation,' Netanyahu's office denies

www.timesofisrael.com

Ideological arrogance





This means they will be extra violent in reprisals because they are absolutely embarrassed their fuckup led to it.

 

[Raheem]

Seems more specific:
View attachment 394900

I don't know where that is from, but it seems to glide pretty carelessly from fact to speculation. I'd be pretty sure no journalist has had access to the text of the specific warnings Israel says never happened, and if they had they wouldn't need to ask if there had been any warnings.

 

[Spymaster]

Vile tory rhetoric.

He said nothing here that 'Saint Sadiq of Khan', did not say, or ostensibly disagree with, in his parlous interview on C4 earlier today.

 

[agricola]

I don't know where that is from, but it seems to glide pretty carelessly from fact to speculation. I'd be pretty sure no journalist has had access to the text of the specific warnings Israel says never happened.

No, but it is almost certain they'd have checked with sources who would know if a warning had been given. Those sources would probably have every incentive to do that too, given that the government are already spinning this as a colossal intelligence disaster rather than yet another example of that man stepping on a load of rakes.

 

[Raheem]

No, but it is almost certain they'd have checked with sources who would know if a warning had been given.

It possible, but I don't think it's almost certain, particularly given the context.

 

[TopCat]

I don't meant o be flippant, but how is flattening gaza going to help rescue anyone? They'll be killed!

I recollect when an IDF soldier got captured via a tunnel near the Gaza perimeter fence a while back. The IDF bombed flat a whole area in which they thought he had been taken. They wanted him dead rather than “held hostage “. It’s the same for the current abductees. They are a political pain for the Israeli government. Easier if they are dead.

 

[TopCat]

Not if it puts me on the same cyber-lists as you, Pickman's model, and TopCat.

Can you stop tagging me in posts please.

 

[Bingoman]

Pro Palestinian demo taking place outside downing street just seen live on Sky News right now

 

[Spymaster]

Can you stop tagging me in posts please.

No.

You are among the most intellectually, ethically, morally, and politically bankrupt posters on these boards, with regards to Ukraine and Israel.

I love your posts on gardening, shooting vermin, and meat preparation. They exude a sense of life and decency, belied by your dogshit politics that are supported by 'likes' from some of the biggest ddickheads ever to disgrace U75.

Stick me on ignore if you don't want to see yourself being called-out as a thoughtless sheep.

TopCat

 

[dilute micro]

Hamas is threatening to kill hostages if Israel doesn't stop blowing up Gaza. How did Hamas see this playing out?

 

[not-bono-ever]

Hostages aren’t much use if their lives aren’t seen to be in danger tbf

 

[Pickman's model]

Hamas is threatening to kill hostages if Israel doesn't stop blowing up Gaza. How did Hamas see this playing out?

Glad you've read to 789. I daresay hamas considered a variety of outcomes

 

[Ax^]

if you push someone into a corner don't be surprised how they react

what have hamas or the people of Palestine got to lose

this will inspire the next generation of fighters

its all a cycle

 

[Raheem]

Hostages aren’t much use if their lives aren’t seen to be in danger tbf

The Israeli hostage/Palestinian prisoner exchange rate has historically been quite favourable to the Palestinians.

 

[Aladdin]

PM Netanyahu Currently Speaking with Southern Local and Regional Council Heads

מבצע חרבות ברזל

www.gov.il

Any thoughts on what Netanyahu means by "we are going to change the Middle East"?

Frightening talk.

Yes I know and said so in my post. Israel clearly wants to be in Europe. My plan will make that happen in the only way that really matters. Geographically.



There will be no Cypriots. Re-read my plan. Everyone from Cyprus gets a free fancy flat in Turkey or Greece (their choice). Cyprus is empty when we move in the Israelis and rename the island as Israel.

Solving the Northern/Southern Cyprus conflict isn't the main aim of my plan, it's just a happy side effect. You're welcome.

Why not Malta?

 

[agricola]

if you push someone into a corner don't be surprised how they react

what have hamas or the people of Palestine got to lose

this will inspire the next generation of fighters

its all a cycle

more likely the end of a cycle

 

[Raheem]

Why not Malta?

This has already been addressed.

 

[Spymaster]

This has already been addressed.

Pointlessly

 

[Raheem]

Pointlessly

The only way.

 

[Ax^]

more likely the end of a cycle

70 years on conflict say different

 

[Pickman's model]

70 years on conflict say different

Go on home British soldiers go on home have you no fucking homes of your own...

This could have, as conflicts nearer home have shown, a long auld time to run

 

[WhyLikeThis]

You are among the most intellectually, ethically, morally, and politically bankrupt posters on these boards, with regards to Ukraine and Israel.

How’s it being ethically, morally & politically superior?

 

[Spymaster]

How’s it being ethically, morally & politically superior?

Why are you quoting me with a grief pic?

Were you on the same course as kabbes at the LSE!!!?

Trying to understand things?

 

[xenon]

condemn top trumps. What a fucking waste of time.