The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Only joking
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
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tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
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Do you think firing missiles into people's homes and killing them is not grotesque? The Hamas attack was a bloody piece of well planned theatre designed deliberately to shock and titillate an audience, just like 9/11, but the if your life is pointlessly cut short it makes no difference how you are murdered. It's still shit whether it was organised by impresarios or by drab grey men in a command centre.
As to the primary objectives, it's not religion or a desire to annihilate Jews that drives people to participate in suicidal attacks like this, it's desperation and anger against the vile conditions in which they and their families live. If you Allow People to live normal mundane lives, they get in with being boring.
Do you think firing missiles into people's homes and killing them is not grotesque? The Hamas attack was a bloody piece of well planned theatre designed deliberately to shock and titillate an audience, just like 9/11, but the if your life is pointlessly cut short it makes no difference how you are murdered. It's still shit whether it was organised by impresarios or by drab grey men in a command centre.
As to the primary objectives, it's not religion or a desire to annihilate Jews that drives people to participate in suicidal attacks like this, it's desperation and anger against the vile conditions in which they and their families live. If you Allow People to live normal mundane lives, they get in with being boring.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Have bunged them some cash, as I said I would earlier in this thread.
Delivering medical care to Palestinians living under occupation and as refugees in the Palestinian Territories and in Lebanon.
Help us get urgent medical supplies into the hands of Palestinians in need.www.map.org.uk
Cheers for this.
Just tried to donate but they're asking for my name and address, which I'm not happy to give.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
That's OK, I knew you'd balk at that so added a score to my donation for you
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
Just watching aljazeera, the Israelis have shutdown movement in the West Bank. Not just border crossings but different sections of the occupied west bank being blocked from accessing each other.
PTK
Paul Kegan
The State of Israel has no internationally recognised borders (contrary to what an Israeli official said on Radio 4 today). It has “ceasefire lines”, also known as “green lines”. (Permanent borders are “blue lines” on UN maps).The West Bank and Gaza Strip are shown as part of Israel on the map. Not even lip service to a two-state solution. Not that there can ever be a viable two-state solution. One state for both Jews and Palestinians is the only possible solution. On that narrow point, his map is kind of right.
“Palestine” is not simply the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It could be argued that showing Galilee as part of the State of Israel is just as illegitimate as showing the Gaza Strip and the West Bank as part of that state. (Galilee, which has a largely Palestinian Arab population, was under Israeli military rule until 1966).
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
I’ll send them the info if you want
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Well imagine being asked for your name and address when making a donation/buying something online.
What do you think they're going to do with it that any other company doesn't?
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
MickiQ
In My Defence I was left Unsupervised
A single unitary state is one of those ideas that sounds so good, it's hard to imagine why they aren't rushing to implement. The problem is that the main raison d'etre for Israel's existence is that it is a Jewish state. A homeland for an ethnic/religous group that has some justification for viewing itself as one of the most persecuted in history. There are currently 9.5 million Israeli citizens of whom about 1.6 million are Arabs. 3 million Palestinians in the West Bank and 2 million in Gaza means that Arabs in a unified Israel would be roughly half the population and Israel's unique Jewish status would be lost in a couple of generations (the Palestinians have larger families) This also doesn't count the 2-2.5 million living in Jordan/Lebanon where they're still not citizens 75 years later. Just not happening I'm afraid.The West Bank and Gaza Strip are shown as part of Israel on the map. Not even lip service to a two-state solution. Not that there can ever be a viable two-state solution. One state for both Jews and Palestinians is the only possible solution. On that narrow point, his map is kind of right.
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
Apartheid in South Africa was never going to end either. Nor the USSR. Etc etc,
PTK
Paul Kegan
Why is it that the absorption of Galilee into the State of Israel regarded as legitimate, but the annexation of parts of the West Bank by that State are not?
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
True. However they never end quite in the way we might want them to end though.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Not so precious about my address tho
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
True. But I really don't see how this can end, sadly (unless, as someone said earlier, one side completely wipes out the other). Doubt it will end in my lifetime.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Was well reported. He had a right sneery grin when he presented it.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Most don't require it.
Usually if you decline to give your name and address, it just excludes Gift Aid.
That doesn't seem to be an option with MAP.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
You have two groups of people claiming the same land. The only solution is for them to share it. That of course would involve compromise on both sides - Palestinians in many cases having to give up on claims to land stolen from their ancestors, Jewish Israelis having to recognise that their state cannot be purely a Jewish state.
I'm not saying there will be a solution any time soon, but when solutions to these kinds of problems do come, they tend not to have been easily foreseeable. It will probably need changes elsewhere as well. The fall of the Islamist regime in Iran would help.
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
Gift Aid is a good thing though.
I don't think Suella is going to come bust in your door for showing a little support and kindness to the Palestinians - not at this moment, anyway.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
Winning the PR war
Karl Masks
Birds Angel Delight
I don't meant o be flippant, but how is flattening gaza going to help rescue anyone? They'll be killed!
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yes, we know
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
QUOTE="PTK, post: 18344605, member: 80330"]
The State of Israel has no internationally recognised borders (contrary to what an Israeli official said on Radio 4 today). It has “ceasefire lines”, also known as “green lines”. (Permanent borders are “blue lines” on UN maps).
“Palestine” is not simply the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It could be argued that showing Galilee as part of the State of Israel is just as illegitimate as showing the Gaza Strip and the West Bank as part of that state. (Galilee, which has a largely Palestinian Arab population, was under Israeli military rule until 1966).
[/QUOTE]
It's all Palestine, isn't it? With perhaps the exception of the Golan Heights. However, Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, at least the ones that I've met, including those from Galilee, show no desire to lose the advantages that being Israelis gives them, which is not surprising seeing how shit the alternative is.
Avigdor Lieberman, who is on the Israeli far-Right and was very influential, has proposed ceding areas within the 1967 frontiers with majority Arab populations to the Palestinian Authority and stripping the inhabitants of Israeli citizenship. This is not an idea that those inhabitants have welcomed.
The State of Israel has no internationally recognised borders (contrary to what an Israeli official said on Radio 4 today). It has “ceasefire lines”, also known as “green lines”. (Permanent borders are “blue lines” on UN maps).
“Palestine” is not simply the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. It could be argued that showing Galilee as part of the State of Israel is just as illegitimate as showing the Gaza Strip and the West Bank as part of that state. (Galilee, which has a largely Palestinian Arab population, was under Israeli military rule until 1966).
[/QUOTE]
It's all Palestine, isn't it? With perhaps the exception of the Golan Heights. However, Palestinians with Israeli citizenship, at least the ones that I've met, including those from Galilee, show no desire to lose the advantages that being Israelis gives them, which is not surprising seeing how shit the alternative is.
Avigdor Lieberman, who is on the Israeli far-Right and was very influential, has proposed ceding areas within the 1967 frontiers with majority Arab populations to the Palestinian Authority and stripping the inhabitants of Israeli citizenship. This is not an idea that those inhabitants have welcomed.
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Ax^
Silly Rabbit
not about rescuing people anymore if the mood of that thread has passed you by for someone people it now an eye for an eye
go look at the mail using a peaceful Israel women death as justification for bloodshed
welcome.to 2023
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
It won't the Israelis will negotiate their release offering some kind of exchange of prisoners. It's what they always do in hostage situations. Bit doing so now would make the current government even more unpopular than it already is.
WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
East Jerusalem allegedly kicking off. West Bank may well be next.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
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