Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Idris2002]

Hamas have apparently (it was in a Washington Post thing that disappeared behind a paywall when I went back to it) said that "our fighters would never do such things, it is against our religion." Which makes me think that yes it probably did happen in one form or another, not because of the specific religion (in this case Islam) but because of what really happens behind the facade of purity and sexual morality that that are set up by sexually conservative religious regimes of any religion.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

A bit of quick thinking that must have been inspired by other odd patterns on the day, though

From memory it wasn’t, he saw the news and moved quick.

 

[zahir]

+972 on the Bedouin victims of the Hamas attack

Reeling from October 7, Bedouin citizens struggle to make their losses known

Despite the toll of Hamas' attack, many in the Naqab feel they can only rely on community support in a context where Bedouin life is not valued.

www.972mag.com

 

[Larry O'Hara]

There is probably a point where the humanitarian situation in Al Mawasi is so horrific that either

1) Biden says enough is enough and there's a permanent cease fire
2) Sisi agrees to take in the remaining Gazan population into the Sinai
3) The remaining Gazan population escapes into the Sinai anyway
4) Hizbollah and maybe Iran intervene militarily

I've no idea when the breaking points will break. At the minute the Americans in particular are playing a game of brinkmanship with 2.2 million lives.

Brinkmanship might imply the US care. They do not, hence Biden sanctioning unlimited arms. US concern for Palestinians is on a par with Mussolinis concern for Jews (outside Italy) during the Holocaust: meaningless at best

 

[Knotted]

Brinkmanship might imply the US care. They do not, hence Biden sanctioning unlimited arms. US concern for Palestinians is on a par with Mussolinis concern for Jews (outside Italy) during the Holocaust: meaningless at best

I think they care about the diplomatic blow back and possible military escalation. How much they care I really don't know, but we're about to find out.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

I think they care about the diplomatic blow back and possible military escalation. How much they care I really don't know, but we're about to find out.

Sadly, I think the arms issue and the numbers dead show we have already found out. But agree with you they are already and will further engage in extensive posturing to cover up for benefit of the naive their role in facilitating genocide

 

[teqniq]

Please give these a listen if you can:

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

A bit of quick thinking that must have been inspired by other odd patterns on the day, though

Abit of quick thinking changed that truck bomb at the pentagon to an airliner.
I really wish I was a loonspud. I was in the Heathrow IT control room at the time.

 

[ska invita]

This is a copied tweet , the link has the raw info


don't think people have processed just how crazy this report published in Israel's Hayom newspaper (owned by the family of Sheldon Adelson, the casino mogul) is:

https://israelhayom.com/2023/11/29/senior-us-lawmakers-review-plan-that-conditions-aid-on-arab-countries-receiving-gazans/

It describes how “senior US lawmakers review [a] plan linking Gaza refugee resettlement to US aid to Arab countries. The proposal, which reportedly has support from senior officials in both parties, calls on the US to condition foreign aid to Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, and Turkey on those countries accepting a certain number of refugees”.

In other words this is the US actively planning the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (with "support from senior officials in both parties"), by looking into tying aid to Arab countries to them receiving the refugees. Which obviously completely contradicts what the Biden administration is publicly saying on the matter, and violates just about every principle of international law.

As described in the report, "the plan even goes so far as to envision how many Gazan residents each of these countries will receive: one million in Egypt, half a million for Turkey, 250,000 for Iraq, and another 250,000 for Yemen".

Which totals to... the entirety of the Gazan population.

 

[agricola]

This is a copied tweet , the link has the raw info


don't think people have processed just how crazy this report published in Israel's Hayom newspaper (owned by the family of Sheldon Adelson, the casino mogul) is:

https://israelhayom.com/2023/11/29/senior-us-lawmakers-review-plan-that-conditions-aid-on-arab-countries-receiving-gazans/

It describes how “senior US lawmakers review [a] plan linking Gaza refugee resettlement to US aid to Arab countries. The proposal, which reportedly has support from senior officials in both parties, calls on the US to condition foreign aid to Egypt, Iraq, Yemen, and Turkey on those countries accepting a certain number of refugees”.

In other words this is the US actively planning the ethnic cleansing of Palestinians (with "support from senior officials in both parties"), by looking into tying aid to Arab countries to them receiving the refugees. Which obviously completely contradicts what the Biden administration is publicly saying on the matter, and violates just about every principle of international law.

As described in the report, "the plan even goes so far as to envision how many Gazan residents each of these countries will receive: one million in Egypt, half a million for Turkey, 250,000 for Iraq, and another 250,000 for Yemen".

Which totals to... the entirety of the Gazan population.

Its appalling but it should be pointed out that the way that is worded makes it sounds like this is something being floated in Congress, rather than in the administration.

 

[Idris2002]

Its appalling but it should be pointed out that the way that is worded makes it sounds like this is something being floated in Congress, rather than in the administration.

That's true, but it's bad enough it's being floated anywhere.

 

[ska invita]

It is so clearly the official plan.... the question is is the US onboard or not? I think they are.

---meanwhile






thats so far....

the article makes the point that it took two years to reach the level of destruction in Dresden. Northern Gaza has taken one month

 

[PTK]

It is so clearly the official plan.... the question is is the US onboard or not? I think they are.

---meanwhile

View attachment 403294

View attachment 403295


thats so far....

the article makes the point that it took two years to reach the level of destruction in Dresden. Northern Gaza has taken one month

25,000 people were killed in two days by UK-US bombing in Dresden. They created a firestorm - a hurricane of fire.

 

[PTK]

The Secretary-General letter to the Security Council invoking Article 99 of the United Nations Charter​

The Secretary-General letter to the Security Council invoking Article 99 of the United Nations Charter [EN/HE/AR] - occupied Palestinian territory

News and Press Release in Arabic on occupied Palestinian territory and 1 other country about Peacekeeping and Peacebuilding and Protection and Human Rights; published on 6 Dec 2023 by UN SG

reliefweb.int

 

[PTK]

UN chief invokes article 99 on Gaza in rare, powerful move​

 

[Superdupastupor]

Spoiler: Sad stuff

It feels like more lines the history's bloody rhyme



The gearing up for a mass population expulsion. Not to the Sinai, the sea. The danger of a fire of Smyrna, suppose that's what the last 10 weeks are, mixed up with the Armenian being forced marched to nowhere. The UN security council gives a nudge the world watched or sees nothing wrong. Lebanon countinoually in crisis, Syria terror in stasis.







FSS when this started I decided I should try and not think about it and mix it up with my sadness

L

Just my disbelief

 

[tim]

It comes across as a pun on angles, if you're acute

Non Angli sed Angeli.

 

[Gramsci]

https://www.inss.org.il/publication/disproportionate-force-israels-concept-of-response-in-light-of-the-second-lebanon-war/

Link from Guardian article

Israel’s use of disproportionate force is a long-established tactic – with a clear aim | Paul Rogers

The strategy goes well beyond defeating an opponent: it seeks to destroy key infrastructure and the economy, says academic Paul Rogers

www.theguardian.com

The present bombing of Gaza is not spur of the moment in reaction to Hamas attack.

This is IDF and government worked out policy to deal with Hamas and Hezbollah.

It is specifically not supposed to be proportionate. That is considered not effective.

The idea is overwhelming force directed at civilian population to deter them from giving support to armed groups.

The second reason is that the level of economic and social destruction means the civilian authorities will have to spend long time reconstructing social assets ( housing etc) that have been destroyed.

The underlying premise is to punish the civilian population and authorities.

Break the supposed links to armed groups. Or at least the tolerance of them.

In such cases, Israel again will not be able to limit its response to actions whose severity is seemingly proportionate to an isolated incident. Rather, it will have to respond disproportionately in order to make it abundantly clear that the State of Israel will accept no attempt to disrupt the calm currently prevailing along its borders

 

[Pickman's model]

https://www.inss.org.il/publication/disproportionate-force-israels-concept-of-response-in-light-of-the-second-lebanon-war/

Link from Guardian article

Israel’s use of disproportionate force is a long-established tactic – with a clear aim | Paul Rogers

The strategy goes well beyond defeating an opponent: it seeks to destroy key infrastructure and the economy, says academic Paul Rogers

www.theguardian.com

The present bombing of Gaza is not spur of the moment in reaction to Hamas attack.

This is IDF and government worked out policy to deal with Hamas and Hezbollah.

It is specifically not supposed to be proportionate. That is considered not effective.

The idea is overwhelming force directed at civilian population to deter them from giving support to armed groups.

The second reason is that the level of economic and social destruction means the civilian authorities will have to spend long time reconstructing social assets ( housing etc) that have been destroyed.

The underlying premise is to punish the civilian population and authorities.

Break the supposed links to armed groups. Or at least the tolerance of them.

Tbh they'll be queuing for miles to join a successor organisation to hamas which will take on the mantle of resistance to the zionist entity, whether that group be islamist or secular. It's not like bloody Sunday broke the irish republican will to resist. The zionists have made much, and had much made of, their way of warfare in which idf thinkers have read such texts as 1000 plateaus. But they haven't looked as perhaps they should at elements of the Jewish history of resistance. At the Warsaw ghetto rising. At subterranean operations during that battle. At the treblinka uprising. If in the face of nazi efforts to destroy the Jews the Jews continued to resist, why should Palestinians curtail their resistance in the face of the genocidal zionist onslaught? People are just plain contrary and oppressors will never understand why the oppressed don't just give up

 

[ska invita]

The idea is overwhelming force directed at civilian population to deter them from giving support to armed groups.

I disagree with that reading....that narrative is cover for what is actually happening. The idea its teaching naughty Palestinians Dont Do It Again suggests once the lesson is learned they can come back in the classroom and behave. This is forced expulsion of all from school then bombing the school to be sure.

 

[teqniq]

Actual executions of unarmed civilians by soldiers:



the embedded tweet with the vid is not showing above so I've put it in a spoiler:

Spoiler: Vid of executions

 

[two sheds]

When they say 5000 Hamas have been killed they really mean 5000 males don't they

 

[PTK]

Yanis Varoufakis on ursula von der leyen​

 

[littlebabyjesus]

When they say 5000 Hamas have been killed they really mean 5000 males don't they

Basically, yes. And looks like they may be including including the 1500 they say they killed on 7 October.

It's a naked, ludicrous lie. Any news outlet not reporting it as such is participating in Israeli propaganda.

 

[teqniq]

Israel are claiming to have captured a whole lot of Hamas fighters who have 'crawled' out of tunnels:



however this is being refuted:

 

[teqniq]

It gets worse. Reports many have been executed. Also you can see the journalist identified in the tweet above in this vid:

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Fucking hell.

Anything from Mossad, IDF, Israeli govt, I just assume to be a lie until proven otherwise now. You get more right that way.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

This is what fascists do. It's what Mussolini did. It's what Franco did. It's what Hitler did. There is no doubt now that Israel is a fascist state. You can quibble about meanings if you like, but in terms of underlying morality and modus operandi: Fascist.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

And fucking endorsed by the leader of the Labour Party of Great Britain.

 

[agricola]

It gets worse. Reports many have been executed. Also you can see the journalist identified in the tweet above in this vid:

If that proves to be correct then I can't see the US Security Council veto being deployed tomorrow / over the weekend. As littlebabyjesus says its absolutely fascist.