Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[WhyLikeThis]

This is pretty nuts. It seems there was a lot of short selling of Israeli shares just prior to the October 7th attacks indicating that someone had prior knowledge of the attack. Nothing at this time is proven but the speculation in the article is that it was Hamas or someone connected to them that was responsible:

Did Hamas Make Billions Betting Against Israeli Shares Before October 7 Massacre?

It could have been Hamas but as we’ve seen there were multiple intelligence reports within the Israeli military and intelligence community that could have leaked. The nature of intelligence sharing between partner nations broadens the potential culprits to a very wide base. Assuming there was expectation of an attack when this bet was placed.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Anyhow, back to the slaughter.

The Israelis weren't idle during the temporary truce last week. They were busy destroying crops in northern Gaza.

From Human Rights Watch. (sorry I'm shite at linking to twitter)

0:14 / 0:15

 

[WhyLikeThis]

Who was that?

Platinumsage

 

[Pickman's model]

Platinumsage

no loss

 

[Knotted]

Who was that?

platinumsage

 

[PTK]

This Reuters report is horror piled upon horror:

Israel orders more Gazans to flee, bombs areas where it sends them

Israel ordered people out of swathes of the main southern city in the Gaza Strip on Monday as it pressed its ground campaign deep into the south, sending desperate residents fleeing even as it dropped bombs on areas where it told them to go.

www.reuters.com

This is absolutely disgusting.

Every councillor and MP in this country has a moral duty to condemn the complicity of the UK in this slaughter.

Some councils have already passed motions calling for a ceasefire.

Every council must pass a motion calling on the government to use all the means at its disposal to secure an immediate permanent ceasefire.

If the council in your area has not yet passed a ceasefire motion, then email your local councillors demanding that they do!

 

[emanymton]

You probably won't see this then. Fwiw I don't see even a small number of posters slipping into anti-semitic conspiracy theory but if you do you should say so clearly. I would say that's a duty.

Been some blindess to it when copying shit of twitter though.

There's been a lot of work over the years to keep U75 free of anti-semitism and conspiracy theory. I don't want to sound complacent but this thread could be so much worse than it is.

I do agree with this though, it could be worse.

Mind you it could be better as well.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

I’ve always had bags of time for you mate . If you are genuinely interested drop me a PM. But it isn’t something I’m comfortable with sharing on a thread where some , admittedly idiots, scream that people are ‘genocide supporters ‘ for daring to raise a different view.

Stop alluding to a position and state it. No one is going to arrest you or drop a 2,000lb bomb on your house for your opinion.

 

[Pickman's model]

platinumsage

NO LOSS

 

[Knotted]

Been some blindess to it when copying shit of twitter though.


I do agree with this though, it could be worse.

Mind you it could be better as well.

I think if people are posting up something they have found that is dubious and they get called out and they withdraw then it isn't a problem, that's just a learning curve.

 

[Serge Forward]

Platinumsage

Well rid.

 

[Wilf]

The one person I can think of who has possibly left U75 completely because of this thread was unambiguously acting as an apologist for the IDF. To be honest given the horrors going on I thought they were treated pretty gently.

Yes, platinumsage's departure from the thread was pretty acrimonious, but given that they said they were largely on board with what the IDF were doing the response was pretty restrained.

 

[Wilf]

This is absolutely disgusting.

Every councillor and MP in this country has a moral duty to condemn the complicity of the UK in this slaughter.

Some councils have already passed motions calling for a ceasefire.

Every council must pass a motion calling on the government to use all the means at its disposal to secure an immediate permanent ceasefire.

If the council in your area has not yet passed a ceasefire motion, then email your local councillors demanding that they do!

The Labour Party's response is a kind of madness on this, an illogicality with it's own weird logic. The weaponisation (and exaggeration) of antisemitism in the party... Starmer's use of this to destroy the left... and here we are with the party supporting the continuation of slaughter. A position that few in the party, at every level, actually agree with. And something that may lose seats in 12 months, possibly stopping starmer gaining a majority. Politics eh? And even the common or garden spineless MP, used as they are to rationalising anything and everything, must be finding their underused conscience playing up a wee bit.

 

[_Russ_]

The question really was whether the MoD statement (“Surveillance aircraft will be unarmed, do not have a combat role, and will be tasked solely to locate hostages. Only information relating to hostage rescue will be passed to the relevant authorities responsible for hostage rescue.”) should be taken at face value.

You think that even needs to be asked in here?

 

[zahir]

It's more of a rhetorical question.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

As close as a confirmation that UK special forces are in Gaza as we’ll get for a while.



This is why UK planes are in the sky above Gaza. To support UK troops.

 

[Humberto]

Fucking hell! Completely shuts it down.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

Those that went to fight ISIS with the YPG had varying degrees of grief from the UK government. Some even prevented from travelling at all.

What exactly is the law on fighting abroad with another state’s military?

 

[Kid_Eternity]

As close as a confirmation that UK special forces are in Gaza as we’ll get for a while.



This is why UK planes are in the sky above Gaza. To support UK troops.

I’d be surprised if U.K. special forces and intelligence agents haven’t been there since the beginning…and tbh it’s a stupid thing to answer if they are…

 

[belboid]

as discussed before, there's a strong chance he's a dual national. But the ban on UK nationals serving in foreign wars doesn't apply in this case.

Section 4 of the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 makes it an offence for a British subject to enlist in the military of a foreign state at war with another foreign state with which the UK is at peace. That prohibition does not extend, however, to enlistment in a foreign government’s forces which are engaged in a civil war or combating terrorism or internal uprisings. The Occupied Palestinian Territories are not currently recognised as a state by the UK. Israel has taken military action against individuals and groups within Gaza but has not made a declaration of war. In these circumstances the 1870 Act would not apply.

 

[WhyLikeThis]

I’d be surprised if U.K. special forces and intelligence agents haven’t been there since the beginning…and tbh it’s a stupid thing to answer if they are…

Israel is not exactly short of soldiers.

 

[planetgeli]

The Occupied Palestinian Territories are not currently recognised as a state by the UK. Israel has taken military action against individuals and groups within Gaza but has not made a declaration of war. In these circumstances the 1870 Act would not apply.

Oh, that's alright then. Someone better tell the BBC, quick.



I remember when it were all taking t'piss out of 'special military operation' 'round here.

 

[Duncan2]

I wonder to what extent,if any, the presence of British soldiers on the ground in Gaza has a deadening effect on any debates that might otherwise be expected to take place in the Commons re calls for a ceasefire and what have you.

 

[teqniq]

as discussed before, there's a strong chance he's a dual national. But the ban on UK nationals serving in foreign wars doesn't apply in this case.

Section 4 of the Foreign Enlistment Act 1870 makes it an offence for a British subject to enlist in the military of a foreign state at war with another foreign state with which the UK is at peace. That prohibition does not extend, however, to enlistment in a foreign government’s forces which are engaged in a civil war or combating terrorism or internal uprisings. The Occupied Palestinian Territories are not currently recognised as a state by the UK. Israel has taken military action against individuals and groups within Gaza but has not made a declaration of war. In these circumstances the 1870 Act would not apply.

Dontcha just love those handily movable goalposts?

 

[WhyLikeThis]

The President of the International Committee of the Red Cross on the state of healthcare in Gaza.



Grim.

 

[PTK]

Those that went to fight ISIS with the YPG had varying degrees of grief from the UK government. Some even prevented from travelling at all.

What exactly is the law on fighting abroad with another state’s military?

As far as I know, you are not allowed to go and fight for forces opposed to the UK.

 

[PTK]

As close as a confirmation that UK special forces are in Gaza as we’ll get for a while.



This is why UK planes are in the sky above Gaza. To support UK troops.

We should all email our MPs and demand to know why British forces have been deployed in the Gaza Strip without the approval of Parliament.

 

[planetgeli]

Those that went to fight ISIS with the YPG had varying degrees of grief from the UK government. Some even prevented from travelling at all.

What exactly is the law on fighting abroad with another state’s military?

For the record, he lived in Israel, his family emigrated there when he was 8.

 

[Pickman's model]

Well some simple googling puts the IDF casualties at somewhere between 300-400 they might very well be undereporting so maybe the real figure is 500-600 but it's not going to be 5000-6000 though
Even 500-600 let alone 300-400 is not a lot out of a mobilisation of 100,000's especially when it seems obvious this is a regime and a military that feels itself to be on a mission.
Plus this is after 2 months of fighting, the IDF has not and probably never will be able to totally end Hamas ability to fight but it has degraded it. IDF casualties aren't going to start rising exponentially, 2 months from now the figure will be higher but I doubt it will have doubled never mind gone up by a factor of 10 or 20.
So what if shit as you say hits the fan in Lebanon, Hezbollah can make a pain of itself and kill Israeli soldiers and civilians but it can't invade Israel or threaten its territorial integrity and any injury will be returned tenfold. As for the harm inflicted on the Lebanese well no-one cares now they won't start anytime soon.
As for the Netanyahu Govt well it won't achieve the unachievable but it doesn't have to, it merely needs to reduce as much as possible the possibility of another October 7 terrorist attack. Peace to Netanyahu is a end to terrorist attacks not a just solution. Turning Gaza into a wasteland and fully locking down the border will largely do that.

No you haven't offered any evidence, you've offered perspectives on historical events. I cast no doubt upon them but they're not relevant going forward from now any more than the various YouTube videos offering either the Israeli or Palestinian 'side' of history.

And I say this with nothing but the greatness of sadness but it is your belief that there is still any possibility of some kind of solution that will be fair and equitable to the Palestinians.
I cannot see any way this will not end without the effective if not actual obliteration of the Palestinians.

Still waiting on your source. The idf own up to 75 as of today. British national, 19, killed while fighting for IDF in Gaza

 

[WhyLikeThis]

More ethnic cleansing options being proposed.

Far from being restrained, Israel is fighting one of the most ferociously murderous wars in the 21st century. It’s a war that, as Lloyd Austin notes, makes little strategic sense. Far from defeating Hamas, it will radicalize a new generation of Palestinians. Realizing this reality, Netanyahu is now shopping around a proposal to “thin out” Gaza’s population and expel the surviving residents into neighboring countries—a proposal that he is pitching to the leaders of both parties in Congress.

Biden’s Bear Hug of Netanyahu Is a Disaster

The renewed fighting between Israel and Hamas shows the incoherence of mixing humanitarian words and bigger bombs.

www.thenation.com