Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

What’s your issue here? Is anyone justifying this?

We've been rather left in the dark by A380 as to what the huge range of views held by reasonable posters who have baled from this thread might consist of.

WLT should wind his neck in at times, but I think a bit of anger at stupid posts like that one from A380 isn't out of line. At least 700 dead in the last 24 hours. The idea that a huge range of views on this mass murder might be held by reasonable posters is kind of obscene.

Ironically enough, I believe A380 has been one of the most vocal posters on the Ukraine threads decrying anyone failing to condemn Russia. He's all over the place.

 

[ska invita]

At least 700 dead in the last 24 hours.

BBC front page reporting of the massacre


the fact hundreds have been killed is buried in the article

 

[wemakeyousoundb]

BBC front page reporting of the massacre
View attachment 402978

the fact hundreds have been killed is buried in the article

all those footnotes...

 

[RedRedRose]

I am not saying anyone has or hasn't erred, but everyone is clearly very raw emotionally by what is going on. Let's avoid unnecessary spats and hostilities.

Thread has been very productive IMHO, let's keep it that way.

 

[teqniq]

I fear that, at the moment they are in a minority particularly in light of the stats posed upthread showing broad approval of the current military action:

Since Losing Their Loved Ones on Oct. 7, These Israelis Focus on Ousting Netanyahu

 

[Dogsauce]

I fear that, at the moment they are in a minority particularly in light of the stats posed upthread showing broad approval of the current military action:

Since Losing Their Loved Ones on Oct. 7, These Israelis Focus on Ousting Netanyahu

There’s approval of the action but not of Netanyahu and his murderous fundamentalist colleagues - a lot of anger at them. I suspect some might be waiting until the end of the operation to turn on them, which gives no incentive to stop the slaughter, as long as the nation is at ‘war’ then there is a duty to ‘sport are government’ and they know this.

From what I’ve read this thread has been pretty good, not much cheering of murderers (of both parties), haven’t seen any of the crank apologist/denialist shit that’s all over Twitter.

 

[teqniq]

Anyone hoping for impartiality from the ICC and, in particular from it's prosecutor Karim Khan would do well to read this:

Thread by @MouinRabbani on Thread Reader App

@MouinRabbani: THREAD: To understand why International Criminal Court (ICC) Prosecutor Karim Khan’s conduct regarding “The Situation in Palestine” is so scandalous and should disqualify him from office, a little bac...…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[_Russ_]

Just fuck off this thread you condescending, racist cunt.

This is what you’re cheerleading

Huh?, looks to me like he was simply trying to answer a question.
The Shadow is basically capable of picking up most of the RF spectrum that is used for communication...Satellite Phones, Cellular phones, Wifi
One can sometimes be seen circling a UK City at 10,000 ft just hours before a terrorist suspect is arrested in the same area

 

[zahir]

Huh?, looks to me like he was simply trying to answer a question.
The Shadow is basically capable of picking up most of the RF spectrum that is used for communication...Satellite Phones, Cellular phones, Wifi
One can sometimes be seen circling a UK City at 10,000 ft just hours before a terrorist suspect is arrested in the same area

The question really was whether the MoD statement (“Surveillance aircraft will be unarmed, do not have a combat role, and will be tasked solely to locate hostages. Only information relating to hostage rescue will be passed to the relevant authorities responsible for hostage rescue.”) should be taken at face value.

 

[A380]

We've been rather left in the dark by A380 as to what the huge range of views held by reasonable posters who have baled from this thread might consist of.

WLT should wind his neck in at times, but I think a bit of anger at stupid posts like that one from A380 isn't out of line. At least 700 dead in the last 24 hours. The idea that a huge range of views on this mass murder might be held by reasonable posters is kind of obscene.

Ironically enough, I believe A380 has been one of the most vocal posters on the Ukraine threads decrying anyone failing to condemn Russia. He's all over the place.

Well aside from the several posters who have felt the need to leave Urban all together and the many many who don’t post on this thread anymore following behaviour like WLT’s Anyway. I’ll leave you lot to it again.

 

[planetgeli]

Well aside from the several posters who have felt the need to leave Urban all together and the many many who don’t post on this thread anymore following behaviour like WLT’s Anyway. I’ll leave you lot to it again.

Mate, that's not an answer.

A) Look, I might have missed something, but can you name the 'several posters who have felt the need to leave Urban altogether' because of this thread?

B) If 'many, many people' don't post on this thread anymore (I can think of DLR) what are they doing in a debating chamber? It only becomes an echo chamber when people run away.

C) The insinuation is one shite poster and a couple of naive posters taint us all. If I was Gramsci in particular I would be pissed off with this. I am pissed off with this. I imagine several others are too. It's not on, any more than WLT's pissed up posts aren't on. (He turned on me, pissed, months ago out of nowhere on a cricket thread. Am I meant to say therefore all posters on the cricket thread are tainted by him/that?)

Why don't you post up Howard Jacobson's piece in the Observer yesterday? He put forward a different point of view, completely sneering in tone IMO, but a different view.

Do you want debate or not? Any of you, not just you. Running away to me just makes me wonder why the fuck you came in the first place. Or is it because it's not your echo chamber?

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Well aside from the several posters who have felt the need to leave Urban all together and the many many who don’t post on this thread anymore following behaviour like WLT’s Anyway. I’ll leave you lot to it again.

So no indication as to what this groupthink might be. What this wide range of reasonable opinion might be.

 

[LDC]

The question really was whether the MoD statement (“Surveillance aircraft will be unarmed, do not have a combat role, and will be tasked solely to locate hostages. Only information relating to hostage rescue will be passed to the relevant authorities responsible for hostage rescue.”) should be taken at face value.

Then that should have been the question, as to me it read as a statement that the plane wasn't being used for that as it couldn't be, which is a point that also (maybe inadvertently) fed into some of the wilder suggestions made earlier (a UK soldier killed in Kenya was possibly killed in Gaza, etc*). I was trying to point out that the aircraft can be used in the search for hostages. Whether it's solely being used for that is another question.

But after answering that I'm off again, this thread is made completely useless and poisonous by a small number of quite unhinged posters tbh.

*Shock... some lefties seeing conspiracies every fucking time anything to do with Israel comes up... why might that be I wonder?

 

[planetgeli]

Fucks sake.

But after answering that I'm off again, this thread is made completely useless and poisonous by a small number of quite unhinged posters tbh.

That's exactly what I mean.

It is not completely useless. That's you making a derogatory comment on a number of decent posters - for the sake of a couple of idiots you don't like.

 

[belboid]

Then that should have been the question, as to me it read as a statement that the plane wasn't being used for that as it couldn't be, which is a point that also (maybe inadvertently) fed into some of the wilder suggestions made earlier (a UK soldier killed in Kenya was possibly killed in Gaza, etc*). I was trying to point out that the aircraft can be used in the search for hostages. Whether it's solely being used for that is another question.

But after answering that I'm off again, this thread is made completely useless and poisonous by a small number of quite unhinged posters tbh.

*Shock... some lefties seeing conspiracies every fucking time anything to do with Israel comes up... why might that be I wonder?

do tell

 

[planetgeli]

do tell

He means we're all anti-semitic really and our dislike of mass murder and asymmetrical war is really just a dislike of Jews.

But doesn't have the decency to actually say that, because snide implications are far more preferable.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Insinuation of antisemitism is not a positive or useful debating tactic. It is dishonest. If anyone has a specific criticism of specific posts by specific individuals then by all means air them. Otherwise don't post generalised claims. It just poisons the discussion.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Meanwhile we wake up every morning to new horrors. Raids across the West Bank this morning. More arrests (hostage taking) by Israel. More innocent people dragged away to be tortured without charge. And a few more murders...

Whatever British planes are being used for, I am sickened by the assistance given to genocidal murderers. Israel is a terrorist state. And so is the UK. That's the only reasonable conclusion I can draw from any of this.

 

[LDC]

He means we're all anti-semitic really and our dislike of mass murder and asymmetrical war is really just a dislike of Jews.

But doesn't have the decency to actually say that, because snide implications are far more preferable.

And you go on about bad faith posts and making assumptions ffs. And you seem also unable to read, the word 'some' was used and I said a 'small number' of posters, and I'm glad you find this thread useful, but obviously I am speaking for myself when I say how I find it.

And again, I'm logging out/putting this thread on ignore, so I'll hopefully not respond, even to accusations of being 'heavily pro-genocide' or racist, etc.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

And you go on about bad faith posts and making assumptions ffs. And you seem also unable to read, the word 'some' was used and I said a 'small number' of posters, and I'm glad you find this thread useful, but obviously I am speaking for myself when I say how I find it.

And again, I'm logging out/putting this thread on ignore, so I'll hopefully not respond, even to accusations of being 'heavily pro-genocide' or racist, etc.

So presumably you won't see this, but the point is the generalised nature of the accusation. Aside from WTL, none of the rest of us know if we're in your 'small number' or not. That's why this kind of post by you or by A380 poisons debate. Be specific or just don't say it. It doesn't help that you're repeating the Israeli state's defensive position that 'the left' singling them out is cos antisemitism.

 

[planetgeli]

And you seem also unable to read,

Thanks for that.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

The question really was whether the MoD statement (“Surveillance aircraft will be unarmed, do not have a combat role, and will be tasked solely to locate hostages. Only information relating to hostage rescue will be passed to the relevant authorities responsible for hostage rescue.”) should be taken at face value.

No

 

[Knotted]

And you go on about bad faith posts and making assumptions ffs. And you seem also unable to read, the word 'some' was used and I said a 'small number' of posters, and I'm glad you find this thread useful, but obviously I am speaking for myself when I say how I find it.

And again, I'm logging out/putting this thread on ignore, so I'll hopefully not respond, even to accusations of being 'heavily pro-genocide' or racist, etc.

You probably won't see this then. Fwiw I don't see even a small number of posters slipping into anti-semitic conspiracy theory but if you do you should say so clearly. I would say that's a duty.

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

I asked for evidence where I had been anti semetic. None was given. Just more name calling.
Of course it’s the first insult that is pulled when anyone dare criticize Israel’s imperialist power, it’s the equivalent of “can’t say anything back, no returns”, and is a result of conditioning of the society we live in. It’s almost Pavlovian in some.
I would not label another poster racist without evidence. yet how come it’s ok to label others antisemite without evidence?
Understand Wlt’s perspective here.


Anyway, back to the genocide.

 

[The39thStep]

In these difficult times let us not forget the critical thinkers and grown ups who have been forced to leave this thread is something that I would imagine would be said if there was an alternative universe type Kings speech at Xmas.

 

[krtek a houby]

In fairness, there's only one antisemite posting on this thread, but he's wisely decided not to double down on it of late.

In regards to the actual subject matter, theres nobody excusing the genocide/ethnic cleansing/ blood bath taking place in Gaza, far as can see.

Apart from usual suspects outside of the urban experience.

 

[oryx]

In regards to the actual subject matter, theres nobody excusing the genocide/ethnic cleansing/ blood bath taking place in Gaza, far as can see.

But there are snidey little allegations flying around, not just on this thread but on others, to the effect that the 'sensible' people have left this thread, and it's now the headbangers in their own echo chamber.

Most of the people on the later stages of this thread are expressing absolute shock and horror at what is happening in Gaza. To allege that this is somehow bullying away the reasonable people is skirting close to excusing Israel's actions.

These insinuations were being made before WhyLikeThis's controversial post.

(Using your post to reply to, krtek a houby , but absolutely not aiming at you).

 

[teqniq]

Thinly veiled excuse for more indiscriminate bombing:



Also:

 

[PTK]

Thinly veiled excuse for more indiscriminate bombing:



Also:

Well done on Sky for exposing this.

 

[krtek a houby]

But there are snidey little allegations flying around, not just on this thread but on others, to the effect that the 'sensible' people have left this thread, and it's now the headbangers in their own echo chamber.

Most of the people on the later stages of this thread are expressing absolute shock and horror at what is happening in Gaza. To allege that this is somehow bullying away the reasonable people is skirting close to excusing Israel's actions.

These insinuations were being made before WhyLikeThis's controversial post.

(Using your post to reply to, krtek a houby , but absolutely not aiming at you).

The conflict has been divisive for many, many years - not just here, but everywhere online. When the latest horrors all unfolded, just had a bad feeling that it would possibly tear apart this place.

That said, urban has survived other traumas and there's hope that it will unite against this most horrific collective punishment taking place.

The actual bigots here are very few in number. But the exasperation and grief that goes with this conflict is complex, for all manner of reasons.

Some of us (myself included) are finding it difficult to take it all in.

Overall, the difference of opinions and feelings here are nothing compared to the actual suffering of Palestinians and, yes, of course, civilian victims of Hamas attacks and reprisals.

Maybe it's a belated realisation that shit like this can happen over and over again and few lessons are learnt?

To witness it (if only from afar) and see the cowardice and hypocrisy of certain politicians and countries... it's sickening, heartbreaking and rage inducing all at once.

There's plenty more conflicts that are ongoing but this one has been in existence for decades and has become so visceral and the ripples are spreading.