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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

All throughout past year Biden has shown himself to be a weak President. I'm wondering if this contributed to Democrats losing votes.

Its not about being for or against Israel. Its that Israel is supposed to be the junior partner reliant on US weapons. And Biden could have made red lines stick.

If I was American I would find it embarrassing that Biden , one of the most powerful men on the planet , has Netanyahu just taking the piss out of him for a year.
It's a show a power by the US rather than weakness, they can commit genocide and there's nothing anyone can do or is willing to do to stop them - no sanctions, no bans, no consequences. American warships are off the coast to ensure their ally is undisturbed, American arms provide the tools for the massacre and American politicians provide the political cover for it.

The ludicrous pretence at helplessness is a PR smokescreen for the Democratic Party which has proven disturbingly effective.
 
It's a show a power by the US rather than weakness, they can commit genocide and there's nothing anyone can do or is willing to do to stop them - no sanctions, no bans, no consequences. American warships are off the coast to ensure their ally is undisturbed, American arms provide the tools for the massacre and American politicians provide the political cover for it.

The ludicrous pretence at helplessness is a PR smokescreen for the Democratic Party which has proven disturbingly effective.
But there are consequences. Any idiot can chuck bombs about. But the loss of reputation takes longer to repair. Sun tzu said the acme of skill was winning without fighting. This requires skills which seem lacking in the United States now. It's not so long ago that the United States had great soft power. But it's expended it on Iraq, on Afghanistan, on Libya, on gaza. The winners out of this aren't the zionists or the Americans but the Iranians, Chinese and Russians. Sure, they're not particularly pleasant governments. But they can point to the Americans and this support of genocide, the likely forthcoming dropping of zelensky, and say 'we're not hypocrites unlike the Americans and we stick by our allies, unlike the americans'. As matters heat up in the Pacific the slaughter in gaza might turn out to be of greater importance than politicians in Washington believe
 
But there are consequences. Any idiot can chuck bombs about. But the loss of reputation takes longer to repair. Sun tzu said the acme of skill was winning without fighting. This requires skills which seem lacking in the United States now. It's not so long ago that the United States had great soft power. But it's expended it on Iraq, on Afghanistan, on Libya, on gaza. The winners out of this aren't the zionists or the Americans but the Iranians, Chinese and Russians. Sure, they're not particularly pleasant governments. But they can point to the Americans and this support of genocide, the likely forthcoming dropping of zelensky, and say 'we're not hypocrites unlike the Americans and we stick by our allies, unlike the americans'. As matters heat up in the Pacific the slaughter in gaza might turn out to be of greater importance than politicians in Washington believe
Whether it's strategically successful remains to be seen, although it may be in relative decline the lack of serious dissent within the US sphere suggests it has far from exhausted its soft power.
 
Good article from Haaretz: The Amsterdam attack shows Israelis' denial of the reality they created | Opinion

This is another cost of the war in Gaza that should have been considered: The world will hate us for it. Every Israeli abroad will be a target for hatred and violence from now on. That's what happens when you kill almost 20,000 children, carry out ethnic cleansing and destroy the Gaza Strip. It's a little quirk of the world; it doesn't like those who commit these sorts of crimes.
 
I suspect that the poster to whom I whom I was replying was using “international” as it is commonly used, as a synonym for “interstate”.

It would be bizarre to describe struggles for national liberation, such as those in Bangladesh or Algeria, as “international conflicts”.
 
I suspect that the poster to whom I whom I was replying was using “international” as it is commonly used, as a synonym for “interstate”.

It would be bizarre to describe struggles for national liberation, such as those in Bangladesh or Algeria, as “international conflicts”.
Thanks for clarifying what you were objecting to.
I think you're right that maybe I hadn't completely thought through the implications of the common usage but, having given it some thought, to me it does seem valid to describe what is happening in Gaza as an international conflict. Although massively asymmetrical, two nations or states are conducting hostilities against each other and as, krtek a houby observed in #15965 there are, of course, many external (international) geopolitical forces that are enabling the conflict.
 
Thanks for clarifying what you were objecting to.
I think you're right that maybe I hadn't completely thought through the implications of the common usage but, having given it some thought, to me it does seem valid to describe what is happening in Gaza as an international conflict. Although massively asymmetrical, two nations or states are conducting hostilities against each other and as, krtek a houby observed in #15965 there are, of course, many external (international) geopolitical forces that are enabling the conflict.
There is no Palestinian state. There is the Palesetinian Authority, which is not an independent entity and has no army, and is not at war. Some people call it a state, but it is not a state in the sense that is usually meant by that term. The Gaza Strip has an administration, but is still under occupation.
 
There is no Palestinian state. There is the Palesetinian Authority, which is not an independent entity and has no army, and is not at war. Some people call it a state, but it is not a state in the sense that is usually meant by that term. The Gaza Strip has an administration, but is still under occupation.
I'm now not sure what you're objecting to, tbh. Implicit in occupation (by a foreign power) is the international dimension of conflict and that is why the process is covered by international law. I think I'll leave it there as this is probably just a tedious interruption to the thread discussion.
 
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Whether it's strategically successful remains to be seen, although it may be in relative decline the lack of serious dissent within the US sphere suggests it has far from exhausted its soft power.
what is the us sphere? are they the prime targets of us soft power?
 
what is the us sphere? are they the prime targets of us soft power?
If they aren't I would say it illustrates the US's influence being enough that alignment with it is seen as being in many states' self-interest without the need for too much specific targeting necessarily (although I'm sure there's plenty of that as well), which is a demonstration of power in itself. But this is besides the point really, the US might be damaged by its involvement in this genocide, that's a different matter to its intentions right now though.

Maybe I exaggerated in saying no consequences but I think it's a misreading to see the US as being dragged along against its will by Israel.
 
Starmer has said in the House today "I'm well aware of the definition of genocide, and that is why I have never referred to this as a genocide."
he probably hasnt bothered with the testimony offered to Sarah Champion's Committee by the surgeon Nazam Mamode posted above by @Little legs.If not a genocide what other description could possibly convey the barbarity of what has gone on and is going on?
 
"It would be wise" to refer to the 7th October attacks before answering such a question? Why?

The peremptory way he answered the question showed contempt for the MP who asked it.

The MP who asked it was one of those independents elected because electorate in that area were angry about Gaza and Labour party response.

It was imo Starmer having a little dig at the MP for being in his eyes pro Palestinian.

That the independent MP didn't preface his question with the obligatory I condemn Hamas attack on the 7th October.
 
I mean Spain has joined with South Africa to support them in the genocide case.

Spain run by a coalition of centre left plus Sumar ( equivalent of Corbynism)

What that Independent MP in UK said wouldn't be a problem in Spain
 
Some predictions for where US policy on Israel/Palestine is going.

and this is why the "Israel Is Finished" speculation thats cropped up this year doesn't ring true for me...its raw old fashioned genocidal state formation thats going on here, and its backed by the US and allies...how it fares in the decades to come is anyones guess...im not sure how any state is going to fare once we hit 3degree warming anyway

Starmer has said in the House today "I'm well aware of the definition of genocide, and that is why I have never referred to this as a genocide."
as a lawyer aware of the definition he knows thats a wise thing to do considering his administration is participating in it
 
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