Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[teqniq]

Francesca Albanese does not mince her words and Lammy's not going to like this much but, frankly fuck him:

UN Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese calls David Lammy a 'genocide denier'

In an interview with MEE, Albanese says Britain has done 'nothing' to prevent genocide in Gaza

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[little_legs]

"Yesterday, I unexpectedly met my friend Khader. I was very surprised to find him in southern Gaza because I knew he was in the north. He told me his story, saying:

“ The siege tightened around us, and the bombing became insanely intense. I was running through the streets, and at one point, I stumbled and fell, only to realize I had hit a decomposing human body. Strangely, l just kept running.

They surrounded us in Jabalia, in one of the schools, and stormed in, humiliating us in front of our mothers and wives, and insulting the women and children as well.

They let the women go and took us young men to prison. Every four hours, they would come in and beat us. If you wanted to drink water, you couldn't simply ask; instead, you had to bark like a dog.
Barking was their signal that you were thirsty. I have never seen a place filthier than that, with the ground and bedding all covered in dirt. It was just slightly worse than hell itself. This went on for 20 days before they took me and threw me into the south! ”

I don't know what kind of army this is or what kind of hearts, skins, or minds they have. I often wonder, are they even human like us?

 

[teqniq]

A very brave young Israeli woman is threatened and harassed by the police for being involved the planned screening of a film 'Gaza Fights For Freedom' in which the journalist Abby Martin is involved. part of a series called The Empire Files:

View attachment ssstwitter.com_1731694183785.mp4

source

 

[ID47]

A very brave young Israeli woman is threatened and harassed by the police for being involved the planned screening of a film 'Gaza Fights For Freedom' in which the journalist Abby Martin is involved. part of a series called The Empire Files:

View attachment 451152

source

Bravissima, maximum respect.

 

[teqniq]

The Israeli state is of course a Zionist project but although this article is a little old it states that whilst the majority dislike Netanyahu the majority of the Israeli public support what is happening in Gaza including limiting humanitarian aid:

Most Israelis dislike Netanyahu, but support the war in Gaza – an Israeli scholar explains what’s driving public opinion

Israelis’ and Jewish people’s long-held feeling of persecution, dating back to biblical times, contributes to most Israelis’ desire to continue the war in Gaza.

theconversation.com

It would appear that I stand corrected:

Large majority of Israelis want hostage deal, even if it means ending Gaza war – poll

 

[Gramsci]

Francesca Albanese does not mince her words and Lammy's not going to like this much but, frankly fuck him:

UN Special Rapporteur Francesca Albanese calls David Lammy a 'genocide denier'

In an interview with MEE, Albanese says Britain has done 'nothing' to prevent genocide in Gaza

www.middleeasteye.net

Green Party asks UK government ‘what threshold must be met’ to prevent genocide in Gaza

MPs urged the government to clarify whether it has ‘assessed that there is a serious risk of genocide’

www.middleeasteye.net

Noticed link to this in article.

Chowns told MEE: "We know the government has not described the Israeli government’s assault on Palestinians in Gaza as a genocide – the prime minister keeps telling us.

"But has it actually assessed the risk? And what will it take for the government to recognise that obligation and act on it to prevent genocide?"

I think this analyst quoted in the article is correct. The government refusal to say what constitutes genocide or to say need to wait ( years) for courts to decide is evading this countries responsibilities to agreements it's signed up to

So it's not so much that Lammy and co are denying genocide. There one sided support for Israel means they can't in public make any comment which would lead to questions about why they in that case aren't doing more.

Gary Spedding, a cross-party consultant on Israel-Palestine in parliament, told MEE: "The prime minister isn't even bothering to answer what the government's definition of genocide actually is, and continues to refuse to act in alignment with our obligations under international law in terms of our duty to prevent, and act to stop, genocide.

Our government are actively avoiding any acknowledgement that there is a serious risk of genocide so as to not trigger or be seen to be required to trigger our obligation to take action."

 

[Gramsci]

So I was right to vote Green at last election.

I couldn't vote for MP who refused to vote for ceasefire

 

[Gramsci]

Some predictions for where US policy on Israel/Palestine is going.

Trump’s unfinished business for ‘Greater Israel’

From annexation to UNRWA, Trump’s Israel advisors should be taken at their word — and Democrats won’t stand in their way, says Lara Friedman.

www.972mag.com

What comes across is USA establishment politicians has same contempt for UN that Israel has.

I don't get impression Trump is ideological Zionist that Biden was.

But she's saying look at who he is appointing to his administration. Advocates of Greater Israel.

On UNWRA she is correct. Its not about aid its that its seen as perpetuating the refugee problem. As Israel supporters see it. I've posted about this before. There are those in Israel who have been saying this for years.

There are several issues that looks like US could come head to head with UN. This does not bode well. As article implies that Trump government wont have any compunction in attacking UN. UNWRA and recognising Palestinian statehood are two issues.

And that's going to be issue for some European governments like ours. Whilst supporting Israel they aren't into undermining UN.

Politics in US is quite different to here. See the discussion on the debate about IHRA in article.

She also says hard right in US are using opposing anti semitism as part of way to attack what they see as wokeness in US. Its being used as attack on liberal progressive Americans in general. A way to wedge the door open and then clamp down on other progressive views.

She does make point that Democrat leadership treated the section of its base who support Palestinian rights with contempt. Whilst the Trump victory was large this was not an issue that lost the election. It however in her view is a mistake.

She saying in Israel its Labour party tacked to the right. Did not work as why vote for a Likud lite party when you can have the real thing. She says however some US commentators are saying Democrats weren't pro Israel enough

She does not mention UK but I think there are lessons here for Starmer and Lammy.

 

[_Russ_]

Spokespeople for the IDF still claims to be the most Moral Army in the world...always with a straight face
So much evidence to the contrary is avoided by mainstream media, why many actually believe the IDF's behaviour is justified.

Meanwhile people involved....

 

[_Russ_]

It would appear that I stand corrected:

Large majority of Israelis want hostage deal, even if it means ending Gaza war – poll

I don't think it's a matter of correctness, more that the sands might be shifting.
On the face of it in a positive direction, but what has been done cannot be undone and the settlers continue their state backed criminality against Palistinians regardless. Settler violence is baked in and even a so called ceasefire wont ever stop the zealots

 

[teqniq]

If anyone can spare a few bob there is a fundraiser specifically for North Gaza:

North Gaza Relief - NSAAEM

My name is Adham and I work with نـسـائـم - Nsaaem, a charitable association in the beseiged Gaza Strip. My organization is documented as an approved partner by international parties, including the International Agency and UNICEF, which are cooperating with us in charitable work. Our five-person...

chuffed.org

 

[Duncan2]

The acclaimed British surgeon cropping up on this thread seemed sceptical of the idea that what has gone on in Gaza can rightly be described as a war.Unless I misunderstood the thrust of what he was saying that is.Has anyone seen any figures for IDF casualties in Gaza over the course of this last year when so many Palestinians have been killed.I suppose the IDF could have reasons for not commenting on that aspect of things.

 

[Gramsci]

The acclaimed British surgeon cropping up on this thread seemed sceptical of the idea that what has gone on in Gaza can rightly be described as a war.Unless I misunderstood the thrust of what he was saying that is.Has anyone seen any figures for IDF casualties in Gaza over the course of this last year when so many Palestinians have been killed.I suppose the IDF could have reasons for not commenting on that aspect of things.

Official figures

https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-idf-casualties

I'm not sure what the surgeon you are talking about said.

As far as I can gather Gaza counts as occupied territory similar to West Bank. This is not a war in sense of two countries fighting each other. As in Ukraine and Russia.

 

[Duncan2]

Official figures

https://www.gov.il/en/pages/swords-of-iron-idf-casualties

I'm not sure what the surgeon you are talking about said.

As far as I can gather Gaza counts as occupied territory similar to West Bank. This is not a war in sense of two countries fighting each other. As in Ukraine and Russia.

More than I had thought at 374 in Gaza.The other 422 I suppose must be casualties of fighting in the north with Hezbollah I suppose?

 

[teqniq]

Only just seen this. Published 14/11/24. Pretty consistently damning. Says right at the end that it will be presented to the 79th Session of the UN General Assembly on 18 November 2024. I fully expect the Israeli ambassador to engage in full-on performative histrionics.

UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war

 

[teqniq]

An israeli woman speaks out against the ongoing genocide:

@YahavErez1

I know there are other Israelis who feel the same, but they are scared to speak up. The International community MUST pressure Israel to stop the horrors in Gaza. We need your help.

View attachment ssstwitter.com_1731876334312.mp4

source

 

[Gramsci]

Owen Jones YouTube on the people that Trump has appointed.

Includes a lot of footage of the appointed people and old footage of them going on about how they support Israel.

Myself calling the piece Unhinged pro Israel stooges is a mistake.

Several of the people say there support for Israel is based on their Christian beliefs.

Reminds me of Ilan Pappe talking about his new book on the Israeli/ Zionist lobby.

Many of those advocating for Zionism in its early days in Europe did so out of their Christian beliefs. He argues that Christian Zionism had a big role in making Zionism respectable view to have

Christian Zionism is important part of how Zionism got support.

And going on over a century its still live and well in USA

So whilst the Owen Jones YouTube short article is very informative these people are not unhinged. Unless one thinks the Zionist political project that started in 19c Europe is unhinged.

There is imo a direct line from the 19c to now in way Christian Zionism has supported Zionism and now Eretz Israel

These people in his youtube video are not stooges or unhinged they are example of Zionist thinking from its early days.

Not having a go at Owen Jones here. He's got a lot of stick for supporting Palestinians. And I've got a lot of respect for what he does

 

[Duncan2]

There was a clip on C4 news of Mike Huckabee in the West Bank in 2019 with a crowd of settlers at his back." There is no such thing as the West Bank" he said" it's Judea and Samaria" .I can see how that kind of wilful refusal to see the Palestinians in the twenty first century could be seen as " unhinged".

 

[Duncan2]

Nothing Christian about it for sure.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Nothing Christian about it for sure.

There certainly is. It may not be a variant of Christianity that you approve of, but the history of Christianity is jam-packed full of stuff I disapprove of.

 

[Duncan2]

There certainly is. It may not be a variant of Christianity that you approve of, but the history of Christianity is jam-packed full of stuff I disapprove of.

Imo Christ would not approve and I really don't see how Huckabees view can be reconciled with anything in the NT

 

[ID47]

Imo Christ would not approve and I really don't see how Huckabees view can be reconciled with anything in the NT

If Christ was around he would either be on death row in the US or in Gaza. Take that back, they would already have killed him.

 

[little_legs]

Only just seen this. Published 14/11/24. Pretty consistently damning. Says right at the end that it will be presented to the 79th Session of the UN General Assembly on 18 November 2024. I fully expect the Israeli ambassador to engage in full-on performative histrionics.

UN Special Committee finds Israel’s warfare methods in Gaza consistent with genocide, including use of starvation as weapon of war

Any recognition is good, but that is just a small UN subcommittee consisting of Senegal, Malaysia, and Sri Lanka, not the UN itself.

 

[Pickman's model]

If Christ was around he would either be on death row in the US or in Gaza. Take that back, they would already have killed him.

Or in some medical experimentation facility

 

[teqniq]

Hezbolla rocket or missile causes extensive damage to a building in central Tel Aviv. apparently approximately 5 injuries one of them serious:

 

[Gramsci]

There was a clip on C4 news of Mike Huckabee in the West Bank in 2019 with a crowd of settlers at his back." There is no such thing as the West Bank" he said" it's Judea and Samaria" .I can see how that kind of wilful refusal to see the Palestinians in the twenty first century could be seen as " unhinged".

I still think its a mistake.

I was talking to one of the leading lights in my local PSC and he said the Cold War ended years ago. The constituency in the USA that pushes politicians to support Israel is the Evangelical right. ( Also in US the entrenched Israel lobby like AIPAC)

Same with some of stuff I've been reading / watching by academics.

The emphasis now is not on seeing Israel as the aircraft carrier for US imperialism. That opposing Israel is a step to overthrowing imperialism. That's all old Cold War thinking

Its more on the ideological / cultural / religious reasons why significant sectors in West support Israel.

As Pappe and others point out Evangelical Christianity always played a role

Another middle eastern academic I was watching said the main discussions about the Balfour declaration in elite political circles were in his view not first and foremost about imperial interests but about cultural issues.

With in the discussions in Cabinet about the Balfour declaration the one Jewish member opposing it.

So moving it away from the its imperialism focus to looking as Pappe does in his books on the actual political practise of Zionism. The minutiae of ethnic cleansing and what he calls the bureaucracy of evil. Seeing parallels with other social movements and belligerent Nation state building.

From this I get that Palestinians and how they have been treated is a human rights issue. First and foremost.

And the way Biden and my government among others have gone on is undermining the development of human rights post WW2.

In some ways its best to concentrate on the details.

This is one way to look at this.

 

[Pickman's model]

I still think its a mistake.

I was talking to one of the leading lights in my local PSC and he said the Cold War ended years ago. The constituency in the USA that pushes politicians to support Israel is the Evangelical right. ( Also in US the entrenched Israel lobby like AIPAC)

Same with some of stuff I've been reading / watching by academics.

The emphasis now is not on seeing Israel as the aircraft carrier for US imperialism. That opposing Israel is a step to overthrowing imperialism. That's all old Cold War thinking

Its more on the ideological / cultural / religious reasons why significant sectors in West support Israel.

As Pappe and others point out Evangelical Christianity always played a role

Another middle eastern academic I was watching said the main discussions about the Balfour declaration in elite political circles were in his view not first and foremost about imperial interests but about cultural issues.

With in the discussions in Cabinet about the Balfour declaration the one Jewish member opposing it.

So moving it away from the its imperialism focus to looking as Pappe does in his books on the actual political practise of Zionism. The minutiae of ethnic cleansing and what he calls the bureaucracy of evil. Seeing parallels with other social movements and belligerent Nation state building.

From this I get that Palestinians and how they have been treated is a human rights issue. First and foremost.

And the way Biden and my government among others have gone on is undermining the development of human rights post WW2.

In some ways its best to concentrate on the details.

This is one way to look at this.

I think you're missing the bigger picture, which is that after 1991 human rights were less important to the USA and its allies as hr a very useful cudgel to beat the ussr. The period 1945-79 a great historical anomaly and too many of us took that for the natural state of things. We're returning to hr having much less importance for governments.

 

[Gramsci]

What satellite images tell us about North Gaza as report accuses Israel of 'ethnic cleansing'

The Israeli military's latest offensive in northern Gaza began last month. While it's difficult to understand the full extent of the operation with independent media access into Gaza denied by Israel, satellite imagery does offer some indications into how it's developed.

news.sky.com

Israel’s Crimes Against Humanity in Gaza

Israeli authorities have caused the massive, deliberate forced displacement of Palestinian civilians in Gaza since October 2023 and are responsible for war crimes and crimes against humanity, Human Rights Watch said in a report released today. The report is being published at the time of an...

www.hrw.org

Article by Sky news. Looking at aerial photos of north Gaza. Sky article quotes HRW report.

Its all pretty damning of what IDF are doing.

They insist everything they do is within IHL

 

[bcuster]

https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/lebanon-hezbollah-agree-us-proposal-ceasefire-with-israel-lebanese-official-says-2024-11-18/

 

[teqniq]

This pretty insane in the worst possible way:

Gaza Security Forces Ambush Gang Accused of Looting Aid with Israeli Support

The gang members are “operating in cooperation with the Israeli forces” to target aid convoys, Hamas’s Basem Naim said.

www.dropsitenews.com