tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Sorry, promoting an antiSemitic conspiracy theory.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
Sorry, promoting an antiSemitic conspiracy theory.
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
The United Nations 20th session in 1965 produced a report on Ethnic Cleansing in Israel/Palestine (see atttached). This was before the "Six Day War" - and clearly Israel was not minded to address the issues then simply preferring - with the support of US military aid - to win the war. This has been their repeated tactic.Verso have increased the number of free e books on their list,
Free Palestine: A Verso Reading List
The following books offer a history of the occupation of Palestine, situated in a wider context of anti-colonial struggles around the world. From the River to the Sea: Essays for a Free Palestine FREE EBOOK | An urgent editorial intervention, published in collaboration with Haymarket Books...www.versobooks.com
Actually I would characterise the Zionist project so far as a dialectical application of ethnic nationalism cloaked in a religious mystery to which 2000 years of shared inculcation (1,400 in the case of Moslems) lends a bogus authority. It is unusual actually for people to simply seize land and expel a whole ethnic group. William the Conqueror kept the Anglo Saxon serfs to do his dirty work. Even the Moslem invaders of Spain apparently preferred the native Christians to stay - so they could tax them.
The bit of the UN proceeding which caught my attention was the paragraph below. which refers to The Road to Beersheba by Ethel Mannin, a radical English author born in Battersea in 1900. I read that book in about 1968 - sadly it is now a "rare book". It has been digitized (pay to view).
12. The second objective of the Zionists had been to expel the Arab population from the "Jewish State". Terrorist attacks had been directed at peaceful and defenceless Arab villages, and at Deir Yasstn an entire village had been exterminated. The leader of Litho in U.N. the Irgun had subsequently praised the extermination as a masterpiece of military tactics. Such terrorist activities had taken place before the withdrawal of the United Kingdom forces from Palestine and at a time when no Arab soldiers were present in Palestine.
Not only had the United Kingdom forces failed to protect the Arab Inhabitants, but they had actually taken part in the evacuation of the Arab population from Tiberias and Samakh and had supplied transportation for the refugees from Jaffa and Haifa.
Ethel Mannin, in her book The Road to Beersheba, had reoounted the pitiful story of the inhabitants of Lydda and Ramleh who had been forced to leave their homes and walk forty miles in the sun to Ramallah. The crimes committed by the terrorists had been glorified, and their perpetrators, depioted as heroes and liberators, were committing the same crimes against the Arabs as the Nazis had committed against the Jews. As Arnold Toynbee had said, it was the supreme tragedy of the Jews that the lesson they had learned from their encounter with Nazi gentiles should have been not to eschew but to imitate some of the evil deeds committed against them. Nazi persecution of the Jews had indeed been a great crime, but Zionist persecution of the innocent Arab population of Palestine was an even greater crime.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Thank you very much!
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Curious about why we don’t see the same reporting in the U.K. (this mirrors my conversations with close Jewish friends)?
www.theguardian.com
‘I, too, am the Jewish community’: rift among US Jews widens over Gaza war
Within families and congregations, on campuses, at protests and online, fissures within Jewish communities are deepening
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
It was Birbalsingh, Britain's worst headteacher... sorry... checks notes.. strictest headteacher.
'Shame on you!': Britain's strictest headteacher pens unhinged letter to M&S
THE woman known as Britain’s strictest headteacher has penned a bizarre letter to Marks and Spencer’s criticising the retailer for…
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
That is ... unhinged 
“When our nation is on its knees, trying to keep our spirits high for what we can all achieve together, this is not the time for you to encourage people to ignore the inspirational spirit of Christmas self-sacrifice, gratitude, giving of one’s time and finances to help one’s fellow man, of children’s laughter, of magical tales of Father Christmas, of kindness and of beauty, and instead tell us ‘to do whatever we want for ourselves’.
“I run an inner-city school in London, where we try hard to instil values of decency daily in our children.
“When Marks and Spencer puts two fingers up to these values, it makes our lives as teachers much more difficult and it stifles social mobility and happiness for our children, in particular for the disadvantaged
tommers
Busta Rhymes is an unstoppable movement
I wouldn't let her anywhere near my kids tbf.That is ... unhinged
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Sorry, I often like your stuff on here, but when YOU come back tarring the whole left (did you bother reading any other posts or were just happy to see something that you think confirms your fears?) over one post that was roundly criticized and stamped on by almost everyone here - it's you I'm beginning to question.
nino_savatte
No pasaran!
Little wonder that she lies within Sp*ked's orbit.That is ... unhinged
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Thanks. She isn't someone I'd heard about.
Ethel Mannin - Wikipedia
Member of Independent Labour party. Now forgotten but at one time influential
In many ways she was , like the group around early anti colonialist mentioned in wicki- CLR James/ Padmore - ahead of her time
Cunard was another women who supported anti colonial movements and anti racism.
I'm still not keen on keeping comparing this to Nazi Germany.
Zionism like a lot of 19c colonial projects was racist. This was not unique to Nazi ideology.
Padmore I mentioned above - the Trinidadian Marxist- wrote articles saying why should colonial people fight for British when they way they were treated in British Empire was little better that Nazi Germany ( this was just before start of war)
Kind of feel the constant references to Nazi Germany let the fact that racist colonial attitudes were accepted as "normal" be forgotten.
To add:
The critique by Barnaby Raine I posted earlier of Zionism is that the other tradition in Jewish thought is seeing their oppression over centuries as leading some Jews to support universal freedom father that the selective national freedom of Zionism.
He mentions Isiah - you probably know more of the spiritual side than me.
So a section of Jewish community would for example become communists of one sort or another. As this promised universal freedom
Thing with present day Israel is that this kind of racist language is alive and well now. Kind of language and attitudes of ruling government of Israel remind me of attitudes to colonial peoples in British Empire if they started revolting.
Ilan Pappe the Israeli historian compares Nakba to the ethnic cleansing in former Yugoslavia. Puts convincing argument that this was the case
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CH1
"Red Guard"(NLYL)
Well a propos Ethel Mannin's Road to Beersheba - here is the preface to her book - written in 1963, when the state of Israel had been around for 15 years:
I note that generally when Palestinians are discussed nowadays it's generally in terms of them being aggressors, suicide bombers, affiliated to Iran etc etc.
Israel pushed the Palestinians out of their country - and note the comment of Golda Meier back in 1962 - not one single Palestinian refugee will be allowed back into Israel.
PS Thanks to Pickman's model for showing me where to access the text.
I note that generally when Palestinians are discussed nowadays it's generally in terms of them being aggressors, suicide bombers, affiliated to Iran etc etc.
Israel pushed the Palestinians out of their country - and note the comment of Golda Meier back in 1962 - not one single Palestinian refugee will be allowed back into Israel.
PS Thanks to Pickman's model for showing me where to access the text.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Looking up George Padmore, the anti colonial communist and in this article on the Labour party and its support of Imperialism in 1944 he says this of Palestine,
( he mentions this in relation to a Labour party NEC paper written in 1944)
As ever with Padmore he sees through the Liberal Imperialism of the Labour party.
( he mentions this in relation to a Labour party NEC paper written in 1944)
Imperialism: The Basis of Labour Party Crisis by George Padmore 1944
www.marxists.org
As ever with Padmore he sees through the Liberal Imperialism of the Labour party.
LDC
On est tous des pangolins
OK, fair criticism, although I did say 'sometimes'.
I left this thread due to what I saw as both terrible politics and a smattering of subtle anti-semitism, then looking in and seeing that didn't give me much hope, but maybe I should have thought on it more, or held off posting planetgeli.
You think Marks & Spencer‘s deliberately orchestrated some anti-Palestine symbology in a Christmas advert they filmed in August? also what colours are Christmas crackers in? And the hats contained within? Sorry Aladdin I like your post normally but you have lost the plot if you actually think this was deliberate.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Here is the Tory government advisor on countering extremism holding forth on the recent demos,
novaramedia.com
If people are going to complain about supposed left anti semitism this is where it leads.
Tarnishing a whole section of this country community with being outside what are acceptable in a liberal democracy.
Evening Standard have been pursuing similar line
I don't think it's going to work as despite mainstream leaders views on ceasefire there is now a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians due to Israel governments bombing of Gaza.
Who Is the Tory Counter-Extremism ‘Expert’ Labelling Pro-Palestine Protests ‘Antisemitic’? | Novara Media
Robin Simcox used to spend his time defending indefinite detention in Guantanamo Bay - then he was hired as an expert advisor to the British government.
novaramedia.com
If people are going to complain about supposed left anti semitism this is where it leads.
Tarnishing a whole section of this country community with being outside what are acceptable in a liberal democracy.
Evening Standard have been pursuing similar line
I don't think it's going to work as despite mainstream leaders views on ceasefire there is now a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians due to Israel governments bombing of Gaza.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Here is the Tory government advisor on countering extremism holding forth on the recent demos,
Who Is the Tory Counter-Extremism ‘Expert’ Labelling Pro-Palestine Protests ‘Antisemitic’? | Novara Media
Robin Simcox used to spend his time defending indefinite detention in Guantanamo Bay - then he was hired as an expert advisor to the British government.
If people are going to complain about supposed left anti semitism this is where it leads.
Tarnishing a whole section of this country community with being outside what are acceptable in a liberal democracy.
Evening Standard have been pursuing similar line
I don't think it's going to work as despite mainstream leaders views on ceasefire there is now a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians due to Israel governments bombing of Gaza.
I agree, and it is surely delusional of them to think this is an issue (like COVID for example) where they have any chance of defining the crisis and the acceptability of any response to it.
People did not wake up on October 7th with no idea of the situation over there, and they can see, read and assess for themselves the position taken by all sides. It is not rational to think that dropping bombs on hospitals or refugee camps is going to liberate hostages, nor is it rational for people to continue to believe what the Israeli government says when they lie so brazenly (such as Hotovely insisting there was no humanitarian crisis in Gaza a week or so ago). It isn't rational that the population is going to abandon long held beliefs (according to Yougov sympathy for Israel in this dispute between 2019 and 2023 was bouncing around 9-12%, with sympathy for Palestine usually double that) just because the commentariat shouts about it. It isn't rational for politicians to tell police officers that a demo or facets of a demo are extremist when their experiences of that demo do not reflect that.
More importantly, it is not rational that the public will believe politicians or the papers on this when there is so little belief in what they say on everything else.
prunus
Tick tock.
Without any comment on the actual advert and whether or not its symbolism was inadvertent, I (my family) throw Christmas party hats in the fire every year. It symbolises the end of the formal (presents, meal, games) part of the proceedings and the beginning of the slumping on the sofas in front of said fire eating chocolates and watching telly part.
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
The coverage here has been far less one way and stigmatising . The protests here ( which are far smaller but regular) have been covered fairly neutrally and the fact that there isn’t endless talk shops on tv and radio probably has helped. A 400 strong vigil for those killed by Hamas was held in Porto , and the vigils for the Palestinian children and the Free Palestine protests have attracted thousands .Here is the Tory government advisor on countering extremism holding forth on the recent demos,
Who Is the Tory Counter-Extremism ‘Expert’ Labelling Pro-Palestine Protests ‘Antisemitic’? | Novara Media
Robin Simcox used to spend his time defending indefinite detention in Guantanamo Bay - then he was hired as an expert advisor to the British government.
If people are going to complain about supposed left anti semitism this is where it leads.
Tarnishing a whole section of this country community with being outside what are acceptable in a liberal democracy.
Evening Standard have been pursuing similar line
I don't think it's going to work as despite mainstream leaders views on ceasefire there is now a lot of sympathy for the Palestinians due to Israel governments bombing of Gaza.
The Socialist Party government whilst holding the EU line objected to the idea that funding be withdrawn from Palestine and has generally supported a line that wavers between ceasefire and humanitarian pause . The President ( who is elected separately) though told the Palestinian ambassador that they shouldn’t have started the war .
There is both small Jewish and Arab communities in Portugal and also Muslim communities from both Africa and increasingly the Indian subcontinent. Whilst the Porto synagogue was graffitied with Free Palestine and promptly cleared of the next day the general mood hasn’t been tense nor as yet has it followed the mood in the U.K. , France or Germany .
Johnny Vodka
The Abominable Scotsman
An interesting and sad story.
www.theguardian.com
‘Between two flames’: the Bedouin family that came to embody tragedy and courage on Israel’s darkest day
The Zeadnas saw one family member killed, four kidnapped and another hailed a hero for saving dozens from Hamas death squads, yet as a community their position is far from simple
Aladdin
Well-Known Member
You must have missed the post where I said sorry.
I come from a place where Irish flags were burned. It hits close to the bone seeing that..and I took the post WhyLikeThis posted at face value and replied not fully realising it was a video made months ago.
Dunno if we’ve had this yet but if not…
M&S pulls Christmas advert post after Palestinian flag criticism
M&S says sorry after a backlash claiming its advert depicted Palestinian flag colours in flames.www.bbc.co.uk
View attachment 398303
If someone doesn’t get sacked for this, it would be fair to assume this was given the sign off by senior management.
The M&S brand is now going to be trashed.
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belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
I'm not quite sure why, despite your other strong criticisms of the racist Israeli state, you are so keen to deny the apartheid that they practise. Saying it would have to be exactly the same as South African apartheid to be so just doesn't cut it. Even if you don't (as I do) believe that it was apartheid before the passing of the Nation State Law, I really can't see how you can now deny it.
"The right to exercise national self-determination in the State of Israel is unique to the Jewish people" That goes way beyond Israel is the historic homeland of the Jewish people, well beyond simply stating 'facts on the ground' its an explicit, lawful, denigration of all non-jewish people to a second class status, muslims and christians have no right to determine what kind of state and society they live in. That's apartheid. And that's before we get on to the fact that the law mandates that 'jewish settlement is a national value" to be supported and encouraged anywhere. That is, any land in 'Israel' (not even specifically the nation state of Israel, but any land it covers - ie including the illegal settlements condemned by international law) is available for settling. They deliberately keep it vague re the West Bank, but the intention is clear. Even more so after the promises to destroy Gaza.
tim
EXPLODED TIM! (Help me!!!)
Because Apartheid was a system of supposedly racial classification based on measuring skin complexion, curliness of hair, measuring the size of people's noses. It was an attack and dehumanisation of anyone who was black for being black and those who weren't black enough it white enough were given an arbitrary intermediate status. The only real comparisons I see are the racial policies of the Nazis and the Jim Crow legislation in the USA. I think that using the term more generally diminishes the particular wickedness of the Apartheid regime.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
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