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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

I can't find where I saw it I'm afraid. But Israel does not control the border crossing to Egypt.

I imagine Palestinian refugees will have an easier time crossing the Egyptian border than the Israeli one.
There is one pedestrian only crossing at Rafah, (all freight goes through Israel, if supplies are making it in via Egypt then it is what people can carry or being dragged through tunnels) the border is a double wall some 30-40ft high of concrete on the Gaza side and steel on the Egyptian one. We're not talking about the kind of fence you could climb over. Besides Egypt doesn't want large numbers of Palestinian refugees either, too great a danger they might not go back when the dust settles.

I don't think Hamas had/has any master plan beyond cause as much chaos as possible. They aren't an army where the generals have a grand strategy and co-ordinate with the officers on the ground each of which has his own set of instructions. I suspect each group of fighters that came through had no more of a directive than head in a given direction and shoot whoever you see. They probably weren't aiming for that festival it's just that one group stumbled across it and decided it was a soft target. That would have made them all the more deadly, the IDF had no idea where they were and what targets they were after. Any groups that didn't make it back before the IDF sealed the border off probably reckoned they were going to end up getting shot so might as well take some with them. For all the IDF know some groups might have decided to hide out for a few days to give the Israeli a false sense of security.
There a reporter on Sky News last night reporting from the Israeli build-up on the Gaza border, there was a 155mm tracked howitzer on a low loader behind her. You don't take that kind of hardware with you unless you are planning on doing a lot of damage to wherever it is you're going.
which is strange given the idf tanks actually captured by the palestinians
Have they have actually captured any and drove them back to Gaza? I know they managed to knock at least one out with a drone but stealing them doesn't seem very smart. They're a bit big to hide and I imagine the IAF will track them and knock them out from the air.
 
In that case it's likely just a juvenile précis of a paper that you've failed to do justice, despite having discussed it at the LSE, no less. Very impressive!

No toys have been thrown, professor. I've simply addressed a rather revolting element on these boards that seeks to "understand" the murder of a couple of hundred kids, and the rape of women and girls, through another prism.

kabbes was very eloquent in his area of expertise as an actuary but then he did a correspondence course in sociology or something and now keeps trying for Pseuds Corner.
 
Not a criticism of you - perfectly good post. But... that's going to be the next angle fed down to defenders of Putin, isn't it? Comparisons between Ukrainians and Palestinians to neither's benefit.
Totally agree I don't see much point in drawing comparisons between the 2, they are completely different.
 
2. Hamas isn't the entirety of Palestine. Are the Palestinians, regardelss of their government, not allowed to defend themselves?
Hamas are a terrorist organisation not some scrappy insurrection, shooting people at a party isn't defence, it's an act of terrorism.
 

Responding today while speaking to Al Jazeera, the senior Hamas spokesperson Osama Hamdan said his group was not attacking civilians.

“You have to differentiate between settlers and civilians. Settlers attacked Palestinians … We hope that Amnesty has humility to send us more developed weapons to attack only the soldiers,” he said, per Al Jazeera.

Hamdan claimed that civilians living across towns near the Israeli border with Gaza, which has long hemmed in more than 2 million people, could also be considered settlers, comparable to the hundreds of thousands of Israeli settlers living across Palestinian territories in the West Bank.

“We are not targeting civilians on purpose. We have declared settlers are part of the occupation and part of the armed Israeli force. They are not civilians,” he said.”
Yep spoken like a terrorist.
 
How do you feel knowing a very big body of people around the world are supportive of Hamas?

Unsuprised. Indeed I myself have been supportive of some of their aims and initiatives in the past.

However, anyone who fails to condemn this latest action is an arsehole, and this episode has smoked-out quite a few more ringpieces than I was previously aware of.
 
In that case it's likely just a juvenile précis of a paper that you've failed to do justice, despite having discussed it at the LSE, no less. Very impressive!
Here you go, knock yourself out.


(Not the specific study I had in mind, I should note, but this was another one I was reading at the time and is the rather more comprehensive explanation of the analytical framework)
No toys have been thrown, professor. I've simply addressed a rather revolting element on these boards that seeks to "understand" the murder of a couple of hundred kids, and the rape of women and girls, through another prism.
I don’t think “understand” means what you think it means. Hint: it doesn’t mean excuse, endorse or accept.
 
Unsuprised. Indeed I myself have been supportive of some of their aims and initiatives in the past.

However, anyone who fails to condemn this latest action is an arsehole, and this episode has smoked-out quite a few more ringpieces than I was previously aware of.
Ok so you feel you have unearthed hypocrisy.

Others no doubt feel those on the right such as yourself have been hypocritical for years. But banging on about it serves little.
 
Not a criticism of you - perfectly good post. But... that's going to be the next angle fed down to defenders of Putin, isn't it? Comparisons between Ukrainians and Palestinians to neither's benefit.
Trying to compare and contrast is inevitable. But whilst all war is hell, not all wars are the same.
 
Unsuprised. Indeed I myself have been supportive of some of their aims and initiatives in the past.

However, anyone who fails to condemn this latest action is an arsehole, and this episode has smoked-out quite a few more ringpieces than I was previously aware of.
think of where you'd be without an arsehole and then thank god for there being so many here
 
Unsuprised. Indeed I myself have been supportive of some of their aims and initiatives in the past.

However, anyone who fails to condemn this latest action is an arsehole, and this episode has smoked-out quite a few more ringpieces than I was previously aware of.
Yep, it's grotesque seeing what these terrorists have done and people defending them or even celebrating their actions. It's in their aims to wipe out all Jews, they're not defending anyone. They're trying to finish Hitlers work.
 
David Aaronovitch's Substack:

Source: Awake in the night

My first question in my first interview to become a journalist in 1982 was about Yasser Arafat and the PLO. I’ve been to Gaza and to Israel and to Egypt and to Jordan and to Lebanon. In 1978 I took tea with the mayor of Ramallah and more tea with Gold Meir. In 2003 I interviewed the head of Hamas. So when Perfectly Nice Chap as I shall call him, requested that as we responded to the slaughter, we recall the “root causes” of it, I asked him which root he would like to start with and offered him some dates. 1917 perhaps? Or 1942? Maybe 1947-8. Or 1967. Or 1972. Or how about 1993? 1994? 1995? 2006? If I were the militant Zionist that some idiot Corbynites accuse me of being I suppose I might have offered AD70.
 
Didn't realise Israel has been shelling southern Lebanon, group of four militants crossed the border Monday apparently.
 
No thanks.

As I said, your précis wasn't incorrect, it was just disappointingly primitive (especially now considering it came from an LSE alumnus!!!) and inapposite to the discussion at hand.
I’m interested to hear your post-teenaged insights, and the body of work that they draw from, so that I might learn to be better.
 
Trying to compare and contrast is inevitable. But whilst all war is hell, not all wars are the same.
Yep, it's grotesque seeing what these terrorists have done and people defending them or even celebrating their actions. It's in their aims to wipe out all Jews, they're not defending anyone. They're trying to finish Hitlers work.
Extra bonkers points for mentioning Hitler
 
Yep. I'm trying to be objective here. Disastrous.

Parading a young naked female conscientious objector's body who refused to serve in the Israeli army through the streets of Gaza while people line up to spit on her corpse and then posting it online, not great PR. Shooting people is only a part of winning wars. Idiotic.
Most of the world turned their back on the plight of the Palestinians a long time ago. Their supporters though won’t quit over what has happened recently. Most will be jubilant.
 
Yep, it's grotesque seeing what these terrorists have done and people defending them or even celebrating their actions. It's in their aims to wipe out all Jews, they're not defending anyone. They're trying to finish Hitlers work.
time to step away from the computer until you regain some perspective
 
Yep. I'm trying to be objective here. Disastrous.

Parading a young naked female conscientious objector's body who refused to serve in the Israeli army through the streets of Gaza while people line up to spit on her corpse and then posting it online, not great PR. Shooting people is only a part of winning wars. Idiotic.
Should think they long gave up on any thoughts of courting Western opinion if they ever had them in the first place.
 
I think the worst problem ATM is that Israel doesn't know what it's going to do or why.

Cutting off the water is not rational.

Well the cutting off of the water supplies is consistent with their deliberate use of words like siege.

I was immediately reminded of Falluja in Iraq. eg this quote from a 2005 article: Mike Marqusee: The destruction of Falluja was an act of barbarism that ranks alongside My Lai, Guernica and Halabja

The assault was preceded by eight weeks of aerial bombardment. US troops cut off the city's water, power and food supplies, condemned as a violation of the Geneva convention by a UN special rapporteur, who accused occupying forces of "using hunger and deprivation of water as a weapon of war against the civilian population". Two-thirds of the city's 300,000 residents fled, many to squatters' camps without basic facilities.
 
Yep. I'm trying to be objective here. Disastrous.

Parading a young naked female conscientious objector's body who refused to serve in the Israeli army through the streets of Gaza while people line up to spit on her corpse and then posting it online, not great PR. Shooting people is only a part of winning wars. Idiotic.

It's frankly a horrible video however I can think of plenty of wars that have been won despite there being the most appalling images possible.
 
Yep. I'm trying to be objective here. Disastrous.

Parading a young naked female conscientious objector's body who refused to serve in the Israeli army through the streets of Gaza while people line up to spit on her corpse and then posting it online, not great PR. Shooting people is only a part of winning wars. Idiotic.

Yes.
 
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