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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

Meanwhile in the West bank. ethnic cleansing continues unabated:


 
I clearly recall a very large proportion of the people I know who went on the matches also went on protests against the invasion of Iraq as well as air strikes on Syria and Libya. However Wallis Simons generally isn't reporting on anything that happens on Planet Earth.
Well he's won an award for fiction...
 
This is getting confusing. A ceasefire and a humanitarian pause are different things and have had separate UN debates. The UN resolution on a humanitarian pause had Turkey voting against it. This while they are incredibly critical of Israeli actions. You can only assume this was because a humanitarian pause achieves very little from their point of view.

afaik, the 27 oct resolution put forward by jordan and passed with >2/3 majority (120 in favour, 14 against, 45 abstentions, 14 non--voters) is the first voted on by the general assembly.
turkey voted against canadas amendment & for the resolution.

there have been a number of resolutions voted upon by the security council, two have passed but been vetoed, the others have failed to gain support. but turkey is not a member of the security council - so they weren't voting.

erdogan started out calling for restraint from both sides, having some sympathy for the need to fight terrorists while noting that the un & others have left the palestinians alone.
when the us vetoed brazils resolution for a humanitarian pause, he said that the un didn't fulfill its responsibility.
yesterday he said israel had been openly committing war crimes & turkey would expose them to the world.
yusuf islam also gave a speech, calling for peace. quite moving, too.
(erdogan, of course, is a cunt)

So the condmenation was an amendment and not a separate proposition? One to be used as leverage?
yes. see the guardian link below.




 
afaik, the 27 oct resolution put forward by jordan and passed with >2/3 majority (120 in favour, 14 against, 45 abstentions, 14 non--voters) is the first voted on by the general assembly.
turkey voted against canadas amendment & for the resolution.

there have been a number of resolutions voted upon by the security council, two have passed but been vetoed, the others have failed to gain support. but turkey is not a member of the security council - so they weren't voting.

erdogan started out calling for restraint from both sides, having some sympathy for the need to fight terrorists while noting that the un & others have left the palestinians alone.
when the us vetoed brazils resolution for a humanitarian pause, he said that the un didn't fulfill its responsibility.
yesterday he said israel had been openly committing war crimes & turkey would expose them to the world.
yusuf islam also gave a speech, calling for peace. quite moving, too.
(erdogan, of course, is a cunt)


yes. see the guardian link below.





Thanks for that clarification. And for the Erdogan position backgrounder.
 
Some Israeli spokesperson earlier on Sky was repeating the lie that Hamas has been stealing fuel from the UN, despite the fact the UN has already pointed out Hamas hasn't stolen any fuel!

They can't help themselves.

From this post.

Lazzarini insisted that the agency had a “solid monitoring mechanism” in place to ensure that aid is not diverted. “UNRWA does not and will not divert any humanitarian aid into the wrong hands.”

He denied that Hamas had stolen fuel from the UN, adding: “It pains me that humanitarian aid, a very basic right for people, is constantly questioned, while at the same time despair is livestreamed on our watch.”
 
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Some Israeli spokesperson earlier on Sky was repeating the lie that Hamas has been stealing fuel from the UN, despite the fact the UN has already pointed out Hamas hasn't stolen any fuel!

They can't help themselves.
boris johnson is quivering at home, scared that his record on lying will be eclipsed by the zionists
 
Some Israeli spokesperson earlier on Sky was repeating the lie that Hamas has been stealing fuel from the UN, despite the fact the UN has already pointed out Hamas hasn't stolen any fuel!

They can't help themselves.

From this post.
To be fair, the UN is not historically much good at keeping track of where the aid goes. To claim that none of the fuel has ended up with Hamas is as insane as the Israeli claim that all of it goes to them.
 
Also, did the complainant himself organise protests against the actions of the Assad regime? If he did not, then he has no leg to stand on
On the other hand, the UK was effectively a co-belligerent in the civil war in Yemen. British-made bombs dropped from British-made and British-maintained warplanes piloted by British-trained pilots were being dropped on schools, hospitals, factories and homes. British military officers were present, offering “advice”, in the command centre of the Saudi-led coalition that was dropping these bombs. British “special forces” were deployed on the ground on a number of occasions.
The humanitarian situation in Yemen was described by UN agencies as the worst in the world.

Most of us ignored all this.
 

Finished this. It was written in 2010. So is not up to date.

I've already posted a bit about it previously.

It's a very good balanced intro to Hamas.

In relation to the recent violence what comes across is the missed opportunities.

Hamas changed its stance, which was a big move, and took part in elections. To its surprise winning against Fatah.

At this point the international community - USA and EU decided that palestinians had right to democracy but should not have voted Hamas in. So from the start Hamas was under economic sanctions.

Hamas made a series of concessions. Including attempt at unity government , de facto accepting the already agreed accords except explicit recognition of Isreal.

Despite Hamas being elected at no time were attempts made to enter into talks with them over peace process.

Ironically initially when Hamas were first elected was most safe time for Israelis as they called halt to military struggle.

Hamas leaders aren't Al Qaeda . Military struggle would only take place in Isreal/ Palestine. Whatever they think of USA they have made it clear no attacks on the west.

They are an Islamist party but have toned it down and emphasized national liberation as that's the major concern of palestinians In practise more like the ruling Islamic party in Turkey than Isis or Taliban.

Fatah , apart from corruption, had lost a lot of political capital due to no progress in peace process.

After reading this even handed account cant help but feel that:

1 Hamas could have been negotiated with

2 Isolating Hamas didnt lead to them losing power- a tactical mistake by USA and EU

3 This all suited Isreal governments. Went on settlement building on West Bank.

4. Isreal governments military policy was to keep the Palestinians in there place. BY "mowing the lawn" in Gaza and tough military policing in west bank. A military strategy that was low intensity conflict that they appeared to think would work indefinitely. Whilst west bank was gradually taken over with more and more settlement building. And settlers being an armed part of the state.

It's all been a recipe for the latest violence. As Rashid Khalidi said recently Gaza was a pressure cooker waiting to explode. Years of blockade in itself had done untold damage.

Perhaps Hamas had run out of options. Options not taken up by Isreal or USA. And turned to high Risk military action.
 
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On the other hand, the UK was effectively a co-belligerent in the civil war in Yemen. British-made bombs dropped from British-made and British-maintained warplanes piloted by British-trained pilots were being dropped on schools, hospitals, factories and homes. British military officers were present, offering “advice”, in the command centre of the Saudi-led coalition that was dropping these bombs. British “special forces” were deployed on the ground on a number of occasions.
The humanitarian situation in Yemen was described by UN agencies as the worst in the world.

Most of us ignored all this.
Oh it absolutely is the case the the British left focuses on Gaza well above focusing on other conflicts which Britain involves itself in or provides weaponry for, Syria was just a bad example being used by someone who, ironically, doesn't give enough of a shit to properly find a good one, and was trying to fit that bad example into a rather clunky box.

A more nuanced perspective might take into account that part of the reason Gaza is so well covered is that, unlike Yemen, there's been a longstanding and very successful campaign that has been built up over the course of the last 70 years which has created the movement we see today and which, in modern terms, is also fuelled by a very comprehensive media jolt every time something major happens. Yemen is a minor news article at best most of the time, whereas Israel vs Gaza is always big news with extensive video footage/PR battling and generates bigger interest and bigger crowds accordingly. That's not to say there's no protest mind, Amnesty has done a fair bit, as have Stop The War (albeit not getting out the same crowds):

Screenshot 2023-10-29 at 18.51.56.pngScreenshot 2023-10-29 at 18.56.38.png
 
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Oh it absolutely is the case the the British left focuses on Gaza well above focusing on other conflicts which Britain involves itself in or provides weaponry for, Syria was just a bad example being used by someone who, ironically, doesn't give enough of a shit to properly find a good one, and was trying to fit that bad example into a rather clunky box.

Israel/Palestine are very close to Europe and are also part of a European story. That could be why, rather than any dislike of Jews.
 
There's lots of factors I think, including because of what already is. People tend to get more exercised about things they recognise or remember, which they pass on to their kids through talking about it, going on marches etc, so a big historic place marker or cause is reflexively reinforced - eg. Britain's protective streak for the NHS. But it doesn't have to be one or the other either – as has been said many times on these boards, there is also an anti-semitic aspect to corners of the pro-Palestine movement which it has struggled to eject, or in some cases chosen not to notice.

Whichever way you look at it though, I don't think vague sentiments of anti-Semitism are what's driving 100,000 people to show up in central London. The placards aren't demanding pogroms, they're demanding peace.
 
The other thing is that Palestinians should be given credit for keeping it in the worlds attention over the years.

The Palestinian diaspora have never given up

Take Rashid Khalidi - the American Palestinian historian. Using his skills as historian to set the record straight and not allow what's happened to his people be forgotten.

This isn't just about the British "left"
 
On CNN this Portuguese Major-General says :

"Benjamin Netanyahu's intention to withdraw Palestine from Israel is quite clear and he is the one who says it, not us... and he doesn't do it anymore because he can't do it"

"This Zionist project of colonization and apartheid towards the Arabs reminds me of what happened in America with the native Indians, who today live on reservations"


 

Finished this. It was written in 2010. So is not up to date.

I've already posted a bit about it previously.

It's a very good balanced intro to Hamas.

In relation to the recent violence what comes across is the missed opportunities.

Hamas changed its stance, which was a big move, and took part in elections. To its surprise winning against Fatah.

At this point the international community - USA and EU decided that palestinians had right to democracy but should not have voted Hamas in. So from the start Hamas was under economic sanctions.

Hamas made a series of concessions. Including attempt at unity government , de facto accepting the already agreed accords except explicit recognition of Isreal.

Despite Hamas being elected at no time were attempts made to enter into talks with them over peace process.

Ironically initially when Hamas were first elected was most safe time for Israelis as they called halt to military struggle.

Hamas leaders aren't Al Qaeda . Military struggle would only take place in Isreal/ Palestine. Whatever they think of USA they have made it clear no attacks on the west.

They are an Islamist party but have toned it down and emphasized national liberation as that's the major concern of palestinians In practise more like the ruling Islamic party in Turkey than Isis or Taliban.

Fatah , apart from corruption, had lost a lot of political capital due to no progress in peace process.

After reading this even handed account cant help but feel that:

1 Hamas could have been negotiated with

2 Isolating Hamas didnt lead to them losing power- a tactical mistake by USA and EU

3 This all suited Isreal governments. Went on settlement building on West Bank.

4. Isreal governments military policy was to keep the Palestinians in there place. BY "mowing the lawn" in Gaza and tough military policing in west bank. A military strategy that was low intensity conflict that they appeared to think would work indefinitely. Whilst west bank was gradually taken over with more and more settlement building. And settlers being an armed part of the state.

It's all been a recipe for the latest violence. As Rashid Khalidi said recently Gaza was a pressure cooker waiting to explode. Years of blockade in itself had done untold damage.

Perhaps Hamas had run out of options. Options not taken up by Isreal or USA. And turned to high Risk military action.
Honest question - is there a reason you spell it "Isreal"?
 
In Dagestan, Russia, a plane from Israel landed at the airport and was surrounded by a mob ‘hunting for jews’.
Here’s a pic of two of them ‘looking for Jews‘ inside the plane’s engine(!)

IMG_6665.jpeg

This kind of shit is being massively stirred up by ludicrous fake shit being spread online, alongside the justified anger at the brutality of Israel’s actions. Fuck this world.
 
In Dagestan, Russia, a plane from Israel landed at the airport and was surrounded by a mob ‘hunting for jews’.
Here’s a pic of two of them ‘looking for Jews‘ inside the plane’s engine(!)

View attachment 397681

This kind of shit is being massively stirred up by ludicrous fake shit being spread online, alongside the justified anger at the brutality of Israel’s actions. Fuck this world.

According to Leonid Ragozin @leonidragozin

One of the sources stirring up this shit is the Utro Dagestan Telegram channel. One of the investors in the channel in May earlier this year was Ilya Ponomaryov
 
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