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Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

platinumsage said:
bi0boy was never banned and I disclosed the rest to editor when I registered this account, but it's fine I'll just leave, I love the good parts of this place but the rest winds me up too much.
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Well stick to the 'good parts', and stop winding up the rest of us, with your nonsense, on the parts that you claim wind you up.
 
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platinumsage said:
bi0boy was never banned and I disclosed the rest to editor when I registered this account, but it's fine I'll just leave, I love the good parts of this place but the rest winds me up too much.
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Do your mental health a favour...no message board is worth annoyance, life is too short etc.
 
Cid said:
Honestly some decent pushback wouldn't go amiss. Though I can understand why the likes of spy etc are steering clear...

That shit wasn't it though.
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The steering clearers are a mixed bag tbh rather than the 'likes of' , and it must be said that whatever the reasons for their absence there have been some very useful contributions by posters who are sometimes overlooked.
 
Israeli democracy. Freedom for some.

INTERACTIVE-Palestinian-prisoners-administrative-detention.png.webp
 
Mr.Bishie said:
And now the Israeli state is arming those settlers: Apols for long c&p but no direct link on MEE.

“A Palestinian man who was killed by Israeli settlers earlier on Saturday had been picking olives on his land at the time of the attack, according to locals.

The Palestinian Ministry of Health announced that Bilal Muhammad Saleh, 40, was killed by gunfire to the chest while picking olives.

He was transferred to Salfit Governmental Hospital in critical condition, then his death was announced.

Nader Asfour, a resident of Bilal Saleh's hometown Al-Sawiya, told Middle East Eye that the settlers suddenly attacked the families picking olives on their lands located between the towns of Al-Sawiya and Qabalan, south of Nablus.

The settlers were armed and started shooting directly at the residents, which led to Bilal being wounded in the chest and then his death.

“His family didn’t find a way to transport him other than the ladder they use to pick olives, due to the difficulty of vehicles and ambulance crews reaching the area,” he added.

This area has witnessed many attacks by settlers under the protection of the Israeli army, and their latest attack on Saturday is one of dozens.

“All our lands are besieged and we can’t reach them. The Israeli army closed all the roads, and every time we tried to open them, the soldiers came and closed them again. We didn’t go to pick olive trees this year because of all these restrictions,” Asfour said.

Bilal Saleh tried with his family to go several times to their land to pick olives, but the permanent presence of settlers on the outskirts of the town had prevented them from doing so.

Today they decided again to try to reach their trees, and as soon as they entered their lands and began picking olives, the settlers attacked them and shot them without any reason, Asfour said.

"The army is present on the nearby mountains and monitoring everything. The people were on their lands carrying nothing but ladders and bags to collect olives. The settlers attacked them brutally."

Since 7 October, Israel has closed dozens of side roads with bulldozers and placed dirt barriers to prevent Palestinians from using them.

Settlers' attacks have increased in the area as they try expand their settlements, most notably south of the city of Nablus.

Groups of settlers have also attacked Palestinian olive pickers in the villages of Battir west of Bethlehem, Deir Jarir east of Ramallah, and Deir Istiya and Haris, near Salfit, forcing them to leave their lands at gunpoint.

Six Palestinians were killed by settlers' bullets in the village of Qusra, south of Nablus, on 13 and 14 October after their homes and property were attacked.”
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Ben Gvir has, in the last two weeks, provided 10,000 assault rifles to illegal settlements. There's a LOT of nastiness happening on the West Bank while everyone is looking at Gaza.
 
Cid said:
Honestly some decent pushback wouldn't go amiss. Though I can understand why the likes of spy etc are steering clear...

That shit wasn't it though.
Click to expand...


I dont have a problem with platinumsage posting here. Ive followed this thread from beginning ( most of it) and skate over some of the arguments with Platinum. No sweat. They are representing a certain view on the conflict. Its similar to the guy I work with. Not one I agree with but there you go thats life.

What does annoy me is the periodic post complaining that other posters are put off this thread.

No one here is stopping any "pushback". Nor do I see pushback been lacking on this thread. Been plenty of it.

Ive had it at least twice. Not complaining.
 
Another thing the political discourse in this country about the latest violence in Israel/ Palestine has polarised the country.

Why is that? Part reason for posting up about Spain is that there the centre left and far left arent falling out with each other over this.

Here its different. It does not have to be like this.

Spain like this country has been subject to terrorist bombing for example. Yet the take on this in their left is different.
 
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Gramsci said:
Another thing the political discourse in this country about the latest violence in Israel/ Palestine has polarised the country.

Why is that. Part reason for posting up about Spain is that there the centre left and far left arent falling out with each other over this.

Here its different. It does not have to be like this.
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It hasn't polarised the country, though. That poll a few days ago showed a clear majority of people calling for a ceasefire. Of the other third, half didn't know. Hopefully a few of those now do know. The demonstrators today represented at least two thirds of the population on that point. Keir Starmer represents nobody.
 
magneze said:
Is it polarised though? Feels like in general the majority want a ceasefire and politicians don't.
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Do a majority of politicians not want a ceasefire? I’m not sure that’s the case for Labour. Obviously Starmer doesn’t and they’ve got in a right pickly, but hard to say re: “politicians” generally.
 
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The political dynamic in Spain is easily explicable. Sánchez leads PSOE, which is the equivalent of Labour, but he depends on Sumar to govern, which is kind of like Starmer being PM but needing the support of Corbyn as a minority partner. Far from slagging Corbyn off, in such a coalition, he'd have to give him a cabinet position and work with him.

As a population, the dynamic in Spain is quite similar to the UK in many regards. It wouldn't surprise me if overall the UK were more in favour of a ceasefire than Spain across the whole population.
 
littlebabyjesus said:
It hasn't polarised the country, though. That poll a few days ago showed a clear majority of people calling for a ceasefire. Of the other third, half didn't know. Hopefully a few of those now do know. The demonstrators today represented at least two thirds of the population on that point. Keir Starmer represents nobody.
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I take your point. What I was getting at was that in Spain taking the views expressed by some posters on this thread are considered normal part of mainstream politics.

I dont know what the pushback is from PP or Vox. Or if its something they want to make a big issue about.

What I was getting at was that the mainstream political atmosphere is different there. Its not inevitable that here and in mainstream this issue is causing such division amongst the liberal left and far left.

One reason the demos have been so big is that a whole sector of population has been consistently ignored over Palestine. Thats that Muslim community. As Starmer is just finding out. This reminds me of Brexit. Big push back from muslim community. Not just the usual suspects that here and in Starmers eyes can be easily ridiculed and dismissed.

www.theguardian.com

‘Palestine crisis was end of the tether’: why Luton’s Muslim voters are leaving Labour

Former mayor Waheed Akbar said resigning is ‘right decision’ amid widespread criticism of stance on Gaza
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
littlebabyjesus said:
The political dynamic in Spain is easily explicable. Sánchez leads PSOE, which is the equivalent of Labour, but he depends on Sumar to govern, which is kind of like Starmer being PM but needing the support of Corbyn as a minority partner. Far from slagging Corbyn off, in such a coalition, he'd have to give him a cabinet position and work with him.

As a population, the dynamic in Spain is quite similar to the UK in many regards. It wouldn't surprise me if overall the UK were more in favour of a ceasefire than Spain across the whole population.
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I wouldn't underestimate the Spanish people. Been big demos supporting Palestine there.
 
8ball said:
Do a majority of politicians not want a ceasefire? I’m not sure that’s the case for Labour. Obviously Starmer doesn’t and they’ve got in a right pickly, but hard to say re: “politicians” generally.
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Well that's the test, isn't it. If you're a politician and it is literally your job to make a stand on this kind of thing, staying silent isn't neutral. Staying silent is siding with Israel. It's very much like the Iraq War in that sense. If you were privately for a ceasefire/against the war but said nothing publicly, that makes you a cowardly careerist scumbag. There are of course plenty of those in Labour's ranks.
 
8ball said:
Do a majority of politicians not want a ceasefire? I’m not sure that’s the case for Labour. Obviously Starmer doesn’t and they’ve got in a right pickly, but hard to say re: “politicians” generally.
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It is the case for Labour.

My MP email reply to me I posted up is the party line.

As Starmer has told MPs/ Cllrs/ CLP not allowed to have motions / internal discussions on the issue or go to demos the only option for some people in party is to resign. As has been happening.

So in practical terms Im sure some Cllrs etc arent happy but they are keeping their mouths shut.

The only other group to flout Starmer on this is the Socialist Campaign Group MPs who are not only attending marches but speaking at them.

Calling Starmers bluff.

Which interestingly enough he has not suspended them.

No mainstream commenter , whose previously lauded Starmer , for the great job hes been doing as said anything about this.
 
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