Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

“This war has stages and today we are moving to the next stage. Our forces are currently operating on the ground in the Gaza Strip,” Chief of the General Staff Herzi Halevi has said in a televised message.

Earlier we reported Israeli Defence Minister Gallant who also said Israel’s military had “moved to a new phase”.

From AJ.

So the land invasion is happening. They just wanted to flatten the place first.

And the Palestinians have nowhere to go.

 

[8ball]

So the land invasion is happening. They just wanted to flatten the place first.

… while avoiding 80% of UN controlled bakeries.

Most likely the bombings are everywhere they think is potentially linked up to the Hamas tunnel network and related assets.
You don’t need bunker busters all the time - levelling a building that is on top of an entrance goes a long way.

Knowing the IDF they will have also blown up a bunch of places that “sort of look right” for that kind of facility too.

It would make a kind of sense if they have some idea about the tunnels and are trying to corral Hamas forces into one place and / or cut off access to supply stockpiles.

This would mean they are lying to the families of the hostages about rescue being a high priority, obv (from some things I’ve seen today, the families are well aware of this).

In the conflict generally, when it comes to innocent civilian lives, I doubt there’s any difference whatsoever between how much of a fuck Netanyahu’s lot give and how much of a fuck Hamas does, but Hamas have more to gain from numbers being higher right now.

 

[brogdale]

Finding it increasingly difficult to understand the motivation of some posters on this thread who appear intent on justifying the Israeli state's war crimes. What is going on here?

 

[Gramsci]

… while avoiding 80% of UN controlled bakeries.

Most likely the bombings are everywhere they think is potentially linked up to the Hamas tunnel network and related assets.
You don’t need bunker busters all the time - levelling a building that is on top of an entrance goes a long way.

Knowing the IDF they will have also blown up a bunch of places that “sort of look right” for that kind of facility too.

It would make a kind of sense if they have some idea about the tunnels and are trying to corral Hamas forces into one place and / or cut off access to supply stockpiles.

This would mean they are lying to the families of the hostages about rescue being a high priority, obv (from some things I’ve seen today, the families are well aware of this).

In the conflict generally, when it comes to innocent civilian lives, I doubt there’s any difference whatsoever between how much of a fuck Netanyahu’s lot give and how much of a fuck Hamas does, but Hamas have more to gain from numbers being higher right now.

When it comes to innocent civilians Gaza in it's IDF doing the killing. Whether Hamas "gains" from this is beside the point.

It is why so many people are calling on a ceasefire.

 

[8ball]

When it comes to innocent civilians Gaza it's IDF doing the killing. Whether Hamas "gains" from this is beside the point.

It is why so many people are calling on a ceasefire.

Well, they’re ahead if you just project over recent weeks, sure.

 

[Gramsci]

… while avoiding 80% of UN controlled bakeries.

Most likely the bombings are everywhere they think is potentially linked up to the Hamas tunnel network and related assets.
You don’t need bunker busters all the time - levelling a building that is on top of an entrance goes a long way.

Knowing the IDF they will have also blown up a bunch of places that “sort of look right” for that kind of facility too.

It would make a kind of sense if they have some idea about the tunnels and are trying to corral Hamas forces into one place and / or cut off access to supply stockpiles.

This would mean they are lying to the families of the hostages about rescue being a high priority, obv (from some things I’ve seen today, the families are well aware of this).

In the conflict generally, when it comes to innocent civilian lives, I doubt there’s any difference whatsoever between how much of a fuck Netanyahu’s lot give and how much of a fuck Hamas does, but Hamas have more to gain from numbers being higher right now.

Are you saying the IDF actions are proportionate in reply to the terror attack on Israel?

 

[Gramsci]

Well, they’re ahead if you just project over recent weeks, sure.

Do you support a ceasefire?

 

[8ball]

Are you saying the IDF actions are proportionate in reply to the terror attack on Israel?

No, any talk of proportionality is meaningless and infantile.

Are Hamas going to offer up some young Palestinian girls to be raped next to their dead boyfriends so we can make sure all is balanced on the scales of relative offence?

 

[Gramsci]

No, any talk of proportionality is meaningless and infantile.

Are Hamas going to offer up some young Palestinian girls to be raped next to their dead boyfriends so we can make sure all is balanced on the scales of relative offence?

Israel has right to self defense. But that right needs to be proportionate.

Which it clearly isn't after days of bombing

 

[8ball]

Israel has right to self defense. But that right needs to be proportionate.

Which it clearly isn't after days of bombing

Does that mean Israel gets to kill the same number of innocent civilians as Hamas and then stop?

That wouldn’t be self defense, but a weird fucked up rendering of Old Testament justice.

But maybe you meant something different.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Israel has right to self defense. But that right needs to be proportionate.

Which it clearly isn't after days of bombing

The IDF claims their response is proportionate.

Nothing to see here, move along.

 

[brogdale]

The objective truth is like salt on a slug to the Israeli state...

 

[Ax^]

No, any talk of proportionality is meaningless and infantile.

Are Hamas going to offer up some young Palestinian girls to be raped next to their dead boyfriends so we can make sure all is balanced on the scales of relative offence?

you are on fine form today it appears

jebus

 

[platinumsage]

"Many"? Is there anyone here who thinks the invasion of Afghanistan was anything other than a war crime in itself from the first moment? It was an illegal invasion, it was amoral, it was disastrous, and it was devastating as is its aftermath.

The Afghanistan parallel is an apt one though for just like the US created the Taliban so Israel created Hamas

Pretty sure it wasn’t regarded as a war crime, certainly no one here accused the Americans of genocide.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Pretty sure it wasn’t regarded as a war crime, certainly no one here accused the Americans of genocide.

I would regard all wars started with no good reason as crimes. The Afghanistan invasion was one of those.

 

[platinumsage]

I would regard all wars started with no good reason as crimes. The Afghanistan invasion was one of those.

You’re not most people: United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

You’re not most people: United Nations Office on Genocide Prevention and the Responsibility to Protect

You're not most people either. Thank God.

 

[8ball]

The IDF claims their response is proportionate.

Nothing to see here, move along.

Yes, they use this word in terms of arguing that civilian structurs commandeered by opposing military forces become legitimate military targets (whatever you make of that argument).

You may have noticed that when it comes to military encounters you don’t have a referee to tell people to stop shooting when the number of casualties on each side is even.

Which is why the Israelis are characterising this as a war as opposed to the Hamas flunkies, who are characterising this as a genocide.

 

[Ax^]

hmm alway nice when the people who are happy to see score of death civilians in a conflict just come out and name themselves

 

[Gramsci]

Yes, they use this word in terms of arguing that civilian structurs commandeered by opposing military forces become legitimate military targets (whatever you make of that argument).

You may have noticed that when it comes to military encounters you don’t have a referee to tell people to stop shooting when the number of casualties on each side is even.

Which is why the Israelis are characterising this as a war as opposed to the Hamas flunkies, who are characterising this as a genocide.

Do you support a ceasefire?

 

[platinumsage]

hmm alway nice when the people who are happy to see score of death civilians in a conflict just come out and name themselves

I suppose it’s better than claiming civilian deaths are just propaganda.

 

[Ax^]

says the guy doubting the UN figures on casualties

ya prick

 

[8ball]

Do you support a ceasefire?

See my answer from 170* pages back.

* - or thereabouts

 

[Gramsci]

Yes, they use this word in terms of arguing that civilian structurs commandeered by opposing military forces become legitimate military targets (whatever you make of that argument).

But what do you make of that argument?

 

[Gramsci]

See my answer from 170* pages back.

* - or thereabouts

A lot has happened on the ground since then. It's a yes or no answer.

 

[8ball]

A lot has happened on the ground since then. It's a yes or no answer.

Same answer.

 

[Gramsci]

Same answer.

Which is?

 

[8ball]

But what do you make of that argument?

It falls apart unless all feasible steps are made to get civilians out of the immediate area.

 

[platinumsage]

says the guy doubting the UN figures on casualties

ya prick

I’m pretty sure there’s a difference between querying figures published by an Islamist dictatorship and claiming the massacre of Jews was a devious Jewish propaganda stunt so they can engineer a war. But you know, carry on being impartial.

 

[Gramsci]

Same answer.

Is it this?

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