Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[teqniq]

Y

Does that mean the original quote was in Hebrew?

Yes, if you look at the last link it shows a screenshot.

 

[PTK]

A good contribution on Any Answers on Radio 4 just now.

 

[agricola]

Six Palestinians were killed by settlers' bullets in the village of Qusra, south of Nablus, on 13 and 14 October after their homes and property were attacked.”

Sorry for the pedantic quibbling - but six Palestinians were not killed by settler's bullets in Qusra on 13 and 14 October after their homes and property were attacked; four Palestinians were killed by settlers in Qusra on 13 October after their homes and property were attacked, and then on the 14th settlers murdered two more during the funeral of the first four.

 

[agricola]

Also, there is this:

IDF Maj-Gen (ret.) Giora Eiland, a former IDF operations chief and ex-head of the National Security Council, tells Channel 12 he believes Israel is in “an existential war.” As such, the impact on civilians in the enemy state next door may need to be extremely high but would still be considered “proportionate.”

He quotes the former prime minister Ariel Sharon saying, “The Jews have the right to live, too.”

Israel has to decide which is more essential, he says: “To look good in the eyes of the West or to terrify the Middle East environment?”

Ex-general: Allow a brief ceasefire and aid to enter Gaza, but only if Red Cross visits hostages and Shifa is evacuated

* * *

www.timesofisrael.com

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Does that mean the original quote was in Hebrew?

Yes, if you look at the last link it shows a screenshot.

So the difference between 'destruction' and 'damage' is one of translation, not proof of malign intent.

 

[Flavour]

Ground invasion is underway. They stayed overnight and are still there now.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I see Corbyn is as sane as ever…

 

[cupid_stunt]

I see Corbyn is as sane as ever…

If he carries on ranting like that, with luck the loon will have a heart attack.

 

[Ax^]

Lee Harpin still at the front of hard hitting journalism it appears

hey at least piers won't sue him

 

[PTK]

I see Corbyn is as sane as ever…

Why are you giving him publicity?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Sorry for the pedantic quibbling…

Thanks for the clarification.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Why are you giving him publicity?

I doubt posting in a thread with over 200 pages constitutes as publicity in any meaningful sense.

 

[The39thStep]

Lee Harpin still at the front of hard hitting journalism it appears

hey at least piers won't sue him

ah , Lee Harpin , purveyor of reliable and respected journalism of whom the Press Watchdog had this to say

The findings make clear that the reporting of the Jewish Chronicle and journalist Lee Harpin fall far below the professional and ethical standards expected of journalists working today — particularly as pertains to accuracy and fact-checking (the most basic principles of reporting).

Not the sort of person that I'd be retweeting personally without some form of caveat

 

[TopCat]

ah , Lee Harpin , purveyor of reliable and respected journalism of whom the Press Watchdog had this to say




Not the sort of person that I'd be retweeting personally without some form of caveat

The Kid does it to undermine solidarity with the Palestinians

 

[nino_savatte]

that bloke really is a despicable wretch

He is, as has been noted on these boards in the past, a skid mark.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

The Kid does it to undermine solidarity with the Palestinians

lol whut?

 

[nino_savatte]

Why are you giving him publicity?

Yet, Harpin is quite content to look the other way when it comes to Israeli war crimes. He can fuck the fuck off.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

that bloke really is a despicable wretch

He really is…

 

[platinumsage]

My position is simply this. Israel are of course justified in responding following the outrages of 07/10. nutralising active terrorists still inside Israel, going after those who committed, sanctioned and directed such attrocities using leathful force. And later, taking steps to ensure future security.

But in the process so far, killing thousands of Palestinian civilians, destroying or at best severely compromising life support infrastructure and services they rely on, enacting collective punishment etc, is not justified. If the Israelly leadership's idea is to solve their security problem by largely depopulating Gaza, with the horror that implies, how does that even work in the medium to long term anyway.

It seems they've decided that going after those who committed, sanctioned and directed such atrocities using lethal force and taking steps to ensure future security isn't possible without eliminating Hamas, and that eliminating Hamas isn't possible without a major assault on Gaza necessarily causing civilian casualties. It's clear now that without such action a Gaza controlled by Hamas will remain a threat to Israel's existence as Iran and others will always seek to empower it to oppose Israel and destabilise the region. In that light the course of action doesn't seem unreasonable to me. It‘s not morally equivalent to the US nuking Afghanistan, but to what the US actually did during their invasion of Afghanistan, which many seemed to be on board with at the time in a moral sense, effectiveness and what came after aside.

As to what the long term plan is and whether this response is wise in that regard, I have no idea. If Israel had behaved a whole lot better to the West Bank in recent years they might have been able to tell a post-war Gaza “look what you can enjoy now we’ve got rid of your Islamist problem” but that ship seems to have sailed.

 

[Gramsci]

lol whut?

You laughed at my post about Corbyn.

Further down the thread you put video of Corbyns brother Piers.

I agree with TopCat here your doing it to undermine solidarity with Palestinians.

 

[cupid_stunt]

I have no idea.

I think we can all agree with that.

 

[platinumsage]

I think we can all agree with that.

Why do you all keeping asking me shit then

 

[PTK]

You laughed at my post about Corbyn.

Further down the thread you put video of Corbyns brother Piers.

I agree with TopCat here your doing it to undermine solidarity with Palestinians.

Give publicity to a crank to undermine the cause. A dishonest way of going about things.

 

[cupid_stunt]

Why do you all keeping asking me shit then

Not heard of rhetorical questions?

 

[platinumsage]

Does anyone know if this racism against Palestinians is widespread in certain Arab countries, or rather amongst certain classes in those countries, or is this guy just an oddball?

Spoiler: racist Israeli retweeting a racist Saudi

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Not heard of rhetorical questions?

Why do you keep asking me that?

 

[ska invita]

It‘s not morally equivalent to the US nuking Afghanistan, but to what the US actually did during their invasion of Afghanistan, which many seemed to be on board with at the time in a moral sense, effectiveness and what came after aside.

"Many"? Is there anyone here who thinks the invasion of Afghanistan was anything other than a war crime in itself from the first moment? It was an illegal invasion, it was amoral, it was disastrous, and it was devastating as is its aftermath.

The Afghanistan parallel is an apt one though for just like the US created the Taliban so Israel created Hamas

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I see Corbyn is as sane as ever…

Got to wonder what the Xmas dinner conversation is like when the extended Corbyn family get together.

 

[kabbes]

I do wish the media would stop calling it a ”war”. It’s not a war. Calling it a war plays into the narrative that Israel-Palestine is a symmetrical conflict, containing two matched sides that can meet on a battlefield. What Israel are pursuing is not war, it is genocide.

 

[platinumsage]

That's a somewhat dishonest claim, because the link you provides says...





But, in the platinum plonker's world, all is fine.

This isn't caused by Israel cutting the water supply, because only 9% of Gaza's water is piped from Israel and that resumed several days ago at full capacity, according to the UN.

What's is causing a problem for water supply in Gaza are shortages of fuel to power the desalinators as most of the water comes from an aquifer. However there's plenty of drinking water to go round, as the UN report I just cited makes clear. Distributing it may be difficult, but that's true in any war zone and doesn't amount to Israel deviously doing some special war crime of water deprivation.