Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Rob Ray]

How many flamingly obvious war crimes did Hamas commit

How many pages of people repeating themselves do you need to get it into your thick fucking skull that no-one's fweinds wiv Hamas? There's no whataboutery to be found here, it's only you who's denying that horrors have been done.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

No, you actually said it:

Ok my mistake: and it is still not for me to justify Hamas: but it evidently is for you to justify the IDF. Rather different

 

[Rob Ray]

I swear between this crap on social media and the studios of the mainstream media every single person who's been in any way "whoa that's a bit much" about Israel will have been asked "oh so R U fweinds wiv Hamas?" a thousand times over before this is done.

 

[andysays]

Just as you have been careful with the word 'substantive' (my apologies, BN has yet to issue a letter of condolence or denial) I was careful to use the word 'appears'.

The evidence, as such, comes from respected (by Israel) Israeli journalist Zvi Yehezkeli, head of Channel 13's Palestinian affairs. As quoted in my post, that you quoted.

So here's some more quotes.

"
The Palestinian affairs editor of the Israeli Channel 13, Zvi Yehezkeli, said that the family of Al Jazeera correspondent in the Gaza Strip, Wael Al-Dahdouh, was the target of army bombing, stressing that they know exactly what they are hitting.



Before announcing the targeting of the Dahdouh family home, the Israeli media circulated news of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s intention to personally announce the targeting of a leader of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas).



Yehezqili was speaking to the channel about this news, and said that there is no information yet about the target due to “the extent of the destruction that we see,” stressing that Hamas itself may not know what happened in the targeted places because it does not have the ability to reach or evacuate.



But the Israeli analyst confirmed that the targets being bombed are known to the army, adding, "For example, the target today was the family of the Al Jazeera correspondent."

I posted this upthread embedded in another tweet, now someone has done English subtitles:

Thanks both.

As Rob Ray has said, it's impossible to be certain, but this is the sort of substantive thing I meant, more than simply someone on here simply jumping to the conclusion that it's deliberate because it seems like the sort of thing which the IDF might do.

 

[Knotted]

I posted some stuff on here last night in anger which I now regret. I will not post in this thread for a few days at least, if at all.

That's fair. At the end of the day we're all posting impotently into the ether.

 

[platinumsage]

How many pages of people repeating themselves do you need to get it into your thick fucking skull that no-one's fweinds wiv Hamas? There's no whataboutery to be found here, it's only you who's denying that horrors have been done.

Yes not friends with Hamas but they're just an unfortunate inevitability caused by Israel. Their war crimes are just the shit that happens when Israel behaves as it has.

The attack on Gaza however isn't an an unfortunate inevitability caused by Hamas is it?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

How many flamingly obvious war crimes did Hamas commit and how much time did Larry O'Hara spend acknowledging those war crimes before looking for justifications?

Oh I see, I have to post the same sentiments many times at your behest? Sorry that is not a game I want to play. You are, again, trying to provoke me into abusive language. won’t Work in this instance.

 

[platinumsage]

Ok my mistake: and it is still not for me to justify Hamas: but it evidently is for you to justify the IDF. Rather different

No, you literally justified Hamas, whereas all I've said of the IDF is that I'd rather not comment at this stage.

 

[Rob Ray]

You're a bigger man than me Larry, this stuff gets me a bit sweary. I think because it's so insulting for someone to be this consistently disingenous as though we're all too stupid to see.

 

[platinumsage]

Meanwhile in US batshit campus protest news, Jews are advised to hide in the attic.

 

[teqniq]

This man has lost 20 members of his family in one strike by the IDF. If you have Twitter access please have a look at his timeline, it is heartbreaking:

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Israeli ambassador speaking in UN just now. The line from them is clear. Hamas is ISIS. The Hamas attack was nothing to do with anything Israel has done and everything to do with Hamas being a genocidal group of fanatics who need to be wiped off the face of Earth for all our sakes. Israel is doing us a favour here! It's a staggering work of gaslighting.


* holds up a video of someone being beheaded *

Actually Israel’s UN antics are illuminating: showing all the world their unrepentant complicity in war crimes. And too, therefore, the complicity of the Western goats supporting them.
I meant to say govts. Spell check altered it to goats—a slur on goats I apologise for….

 

[Gramsci]

Route of march on Saturday. This is unusual route

 

[Mr.Bishie]

This man has lost 20 member of his family in one strike by the IDF.

I fucked X off, but I sincerely hope he survives this current onslaught to sue the arse off the Israeli state.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

I’ve been on these boards nearly 25 years, & not one poster on ignore - not even shite like you mate.

I commend you for that: an example I can’t equal, not least because many (not all) Liverpool FC supporters on these boards are about as truthful as platinumsage

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I apologise for calling you anti-semitic last night. I have no evidence to support this. The post was written while I was very angry.

I can accept this. I have no issue with people having radically different views, I just wish we could be a little more civil…

 

[Johnny Vodka]

Would anyone at this stage even question that Israel (and its backers) would stoop so low as to target journalists?

 

[Larry O'Hara]

No, you literally justified Hamas, whereas all I've said of the IDF is that I'd rather not comment at this stage.

See post 5797

 

[Pickman's model]

Route of march on Saturday. This is unusual route

Never seen the like

 

[Larry O'Hara]

You're a bigger man than me Larry, this stuff gets me a bit sweary. I think because it's so insulting for someone to be this consistently disingenous as though we're all too stupid to see.

Rob I think it is a clear planned tactic actually

 

[likesfish]

q

Found this by Tareq Baconi. An academic he has written about Hamas. This is short to the point history of Hamas.

For those following all this thread a lot of what he says isn't new.

Hamas came out of the Muslim Brotherhood Palestinian section. Who before this were not involved in politics. More into preaching and education of Muslims.

Hamas came about due to the Intifada. As Muslim Brotherhood they thought they had to reform people to make them good Muslims and then become political He says they stood this on its head. They are a political organisation with an armed wing. Nationalist who see armed struggle as way too free Palestine.

They took part in the elections to Gaza and West Bank in 2006. Won.

His analysis is that they are an organisation that learn and adapt. The original charter was full of anti semitic references. This was superceded later on. Present position is that they distinguish between Jews and Zionists. There argument is with Zionists.

At various times they have put out feelers for talks. Offers of negotiation were rebuffed . The basic way they were treated by US and Israel when they won elections was to not deal with them and isolate them.

They have tried popular mobilization. The marches to the fences surrounding Gaza a few years ago. Non violent action. He says the Isreali response to any protest like this is to militaries it. Many unarmed people were shot and killed by snipers or had limbs amputated. Medical personal and journalists were targeted.

Military tactics and politics go together in Israel. The Israeli way of dealing with Hamas and the large population of Gaza was to put them under siege. Israel controls everything that goes in and out. With Hamas managing the open air prison.

This suited the Israeli military/ politicians. It was a policy of containment. Every now and then the military would "mow the grass" Do limited attack to decrease Hamas military capabilities.

They made mistake this would work. Hamas would resign to be in control of Gaza. And be contained.

What they didn't foresee was Hamas military wing breaking out and attacking Israel itself.

So he's saying Hamas arent mad / not ISIS/ Islamic but willing to support nationalist struggle/ have been willing to negotiate.

He did say its hard to know support for Hamas now. But recent polls he looked at prior to this attack looked good for Hamas.

Dealing with the underlying grievances and talks were only way forward. Not militarising it as Israel governments / military have done. A political not military solution.

Israel policy of containment and not doing serious talks will mean the conflict will continue.

All in all the context from this view is that Hamas tried everything else and it did not work.

they just pulled a 9/11 impact level attack over 1000 civillians killed 200 taken hostage Israel like any country suffering an attack like that has pushed the beserk button it's the equal to 7000 UK civillians being killed in a single day the response to that is always going to be extreme it's not business as normal

 

[The39thStep]

I commend you for that: an example I can’t equal, not least because many (not all) Liverpool FC supporters on these boards are about as truthful as platinumsage

I think Hazy Jane is a Liverpool supporter

 

[TopCat]

Never seen the like

Yeah I have never known such a route.

 

[Pickman's model]

I think Hazy Jane is a Liverpool supporter

((((Liverpool))))

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Never seen the like

Possibly anticipating more than 300k?

 

[The39thStep]

q

they just pulled a 9/11 impact level attack over 1000 civillians killed 200 taken hostage Israel like any country suffering an attack like that has pushed the beserk button it's the equal to 7000 UK civillians being killed in a single day the response to that is always going to be extreme it's not business as normal

What did business as normal look like ?

 

[Pickman's model]

Possibly anticipating more than 300k?

It's a daft route for that large a number of people

 

[Pickman's model]

What did business as normal look like ?

~400 Palestinians killed a year maybe

 

[The39thStep]

~400 Palestinians killed a year maybe

I was asking the boy at the back wearing the beret

 

[Pickman's model]

I was asking the boy at the back wearing the beret