Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Raheem]

is there any substantive reason to suggest that the family were deliberately targeted, rather than just being a few of the many casualities of indiscriminate bombing of civilians?

I think it's just that if a rocket hits your house then, x times out of ten, you were targeted.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

All you've managed to say on the massacre of Jews is "It is not for me to justify what Hamas has done, but..."

Are you adding yourself to the vile club?

Par for the course you are attempting to provoke me to descend into your gutter by inventing a fictitious quote then asking me to justify myself to you. Won’t work, but thank you for underlining yet again your tawdry MO.

pS now accepted quote not fictitious but point still stands

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

I posted some stuff on here last night in anger which I now regret. I will not post in this thread for a few days at least, if at all.

 

[platinumsage]

Par for the course you are attempting to provoke me to descend into your gutter by inventing a fictitious quote then asking me to justify myself to you. Won’t work, but thank you for underlining yet again your tawdry MO.

No, you actually said it:

It is not for me to justify what Hamas has done, but

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

Im not that bothered with HazeyCosmicJive saying Im a woke left anti semite

It goes with the territory of Palestine / Israel conflict.

Hazey isn't that out of line with how our political leaders think. Its that Hazey just comes out and says it bluntly. There is not a lot of difference between way Starmer has been going on ( before having to backtrack a bit) and Hazey. Not supporting a ceasefire and repeatedly saying Isreal has a right to defend itself is tantamount to sentencing civilians in Gaza to death. Same with pronouncements of Rishi Sunak and government ministers

I apologise for calling you anti-semitic last night. I have no evidence to support this. The post was written while I was very angry.

 

[Rob Ray]

No, you actually said it:

So you think it is up to him to justify what Hamas has done?

Yet more fucking childish "but you like them really though" shit.

 

[8ball]

I apologise for calling you anti-semitic last night. I have no evidence to support this. The post was written while I was very angry.

You should have said "racist". That seems to be fine.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Israeli ambassador speaking in UN just now. The line from them is clear. Hamas is ISIS. The Hamas attack was nothing to do with anything Israel has done and everything to do with Hamas being a genocidal group of fanatics who need to be wiped off the face of Earth for all our sakes. Israel is doing us a favour here! It's a staggering work of gaslighting.

Gilad Erdan, Ambassador and Permanent Representative of Israel to UN, said that the 7 October massacre and what ensued “has nothing” to do with the Palestinians, the Arab-Israeli conflict or the Palestinian question.

“This is not a war with the Palestinians, Israel is at war with the genocidal jihadist Hamas terror organization. It is the law abiding democracy of Israel against modern day Nazis” he said.

He went on to note that Hamas does not care about Palestinian people, peace or dialogue. Its only goal is to “annihilate Israel and murder every single Jew on the face of the Earth.”

Mr. Erdan spoke of the brutal killings of innocent Israeli civilians and intentional targeting of Israel medical teams that were trying to help the injured during the terror attack. He questioned the “hypocrisy” that there is not a single condemnation of the barbarity against Israelis.

“The hypocrisy is beyond belief,” he stressed.

* holds up a video of someone being beheaded *

“There are no words in any language to describe the evil we just witnessed,” at the hands of a Hamas militant he said, adding that it is not describable because it has no place in humankind.

“ISIS was the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria and Hamas is the Islamic State of Gaza. Just as was done with ISIS, Hamas must be no more,” he declared, stating that the goal of Israel is to “completely eradicate Hamas’ capabilities and we will use every means at our disposal to accomplish this.”

“Not for revenge, not for retaliation. But to ensure such depravity and atrocity never occurs again,” said the Israeli ambassador.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

I certainly don't want to come across as defending the IDF, and I think that more or less indiscriminate bombing of an area that you've previously ordered people to move to for their own safety comes close enough to terrorism that I'm not going to quibble, but is there any substantive reason to suggest that the family were deliberately targeted, rather than just being a few of the many casualities of indiscriminate bombing of civilians?

Al Jazeera think they were targetted and an Israeli journalist on Israeli TV said they were targetted. From what I can see, the IDF haven't commented - wouldn't expect them to.

 

[Pickman's model]

I posted some stuff on here last night in anger which I now regret. I will not post in this thread for a few days at least, if at all.

it's very pleasant to have some good news on this thread for a change

 

[Rob Ray]

He questioned the “hypocrisy” that there is not a single condemnation of the barbarity against Israelis.

That is quite the claim.

 

[agricola]

I certainly don't want to come across as defending the IDF, and I think that more or less indiscriminate bombing of an area that you've previously ordered people to move to for their own safety comes close enough to terrorism that I'm not going to quibble, but is there any substantive reason to suggest that the family were deliberately targeted, rather than just being a few of the many casualities of indiscriminate bombing of civilians?

His importance, and the long history of journalists in general and that network in particular being attacked by the IDF, would be the best indication for me.

 

[andysays]

Al Jazeera think they were targetted and an Israeli journalist on Israeli TV said they were targetted. From what I can see, the IDF haven't commented - wouldn't expect them to.

OK, I hadn't seen that.

Did either of those sources suggest what info they had which led them to that conclusion?

 

[planetgeli]

I certainly don't want to come across as defending the IDF, and I think that more or less indiscriminate bombing of an area that you've previously ordered people to move to for their own safety comes close enough to terrorism that I'm not going to quibble, but is there any substantive reason to suggest that the family were deliberately targeted, rather than just being a few of the many casualities of indiscriminate bombing of civilians?

Just as you have been careful with the word 'substantive' (my apologies, BN has yet to issue a letter of condolence or denial) I was careful to use the word 'appears'.

The evidence, as such, comes from respected (by Israel) Israeli journalist Zvi Yehezkeli, head of Channel 13's Palestinian affairs. As quoted in my post, that you quoted.

So here's some more quotes.

"
The Palestinian affairs editor of the Israeli Channel 13, Zvi Yehezkeli, said that the family of Al Jazeera correspondent in the Gaza Strip, Wael Al-Dahdouh, was the target of army bombing, stressing that they know exactly what they are hitting.



Before announcing the targeting of the Dahdouh family home, the Israeli media circulated news of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s intention to personally announce the targeting of a leader of the Islamic Resistance Movement (Hamas).



Yehezqili was speaking to the channel about this news, and said that there is no information yet about the target due to “the extent of the destruction that we see,” stressing that Hamas itself may not know what happened in the targeted places because it does not have the ability to reach or evacuate.



But the Israeli analyst confirmed that the targets being bombed are known to the army, adding, "For example, the target today was the family of the Al Jazeera correspondent."

 

[Rob Ray]

It's absolutely impossible to say anything for certain. There's potential motive, but that's not going to be indisputable proof unless someone inside the IDF breaks ranks to say "I was there and this was the reasoning." So it's another one of you'll believe it if you're predisposed to, like so much of this mess.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

No.

Apologies. Not sure why I’ve just been sucked into responding to you. Far more important issues to think about, than you.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

OK, I hadn't seen that.

Did either of those sources suggest what info they had which led them to that conclusion?

Don't know. The Israeli journalist was boasting about it.

 

[teqniq]

OK, I hadn't seen that.

Did either of those sources suggest what info they had which led them to that conclusion?

I posted this upthread embedded in another tweet, now someone has done English subtitles:

 

[8ball]

I posted this upthread embedded in another tweet, now someone has done English subtitles:

"Journalists aren't civilians" clarification to follow shortly...

 

[Rob Ray]

Some journo bragging isn't proof unless they have sources – that goes for every conflict.

 

[Karl Masks]

This may be an utterly grotesque thing to say but it's hard to think clearly right now. I am happy to delete this if need be.

When I hear Israeli government spokespeople and supporters compare October 7 I can't help thinking they are devalying the holocaust. Not deliberately I'm sure, given that it was an awful stain on human history. But it's not the same, not by scale context or circumstance. The more they say this, the more I feel, to be quite honest, they take away from the severity of the holocaust. Some of them must know this and that Israeli exceptionalism surely shoudln't make use of it to justify more slaughter.

 

[platinumsage]

So you think it is up to him to justify what Hamas has done?

Yet more fucking childish "but you like them really though" shit.

No I think it's weird that he says that I'm an "apologist for war crimes" and that my "language and sentiments are vile" although the extent of this would seem to be my failure to condemn Israel right now. If he can't see that his posts own about the Hamas attack are at least equivalent or not worse than mine regarding Israel then he is exceedingly uninsightful.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

"Journalists aren't civilians" clarification to follow shortly...

And neither are their children.

 

[platinumsage]

Apologies. Not sure why I’ve just been sucked into responding to you. Far more important issues to think about, than you.

Thought you'd have me on ignore. Believe me I've wanted to tell lots of people on this thread to just fuck off.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

is there any substantive reason to suggest that the family were deliberately targeted, rather than just being a few of the many casualities of indiscriminate bombing of civilians?

Al Jazeera have this time, been kicked out of Israel. Their offices targeted, (not for the first time, 2014), & now this. Last count, maybe more now, 25 journalists have already been killed. Why would Israel want the world to see what it’s doing in Gaza? If I was Israel, I wouldn’t.

 

[platinumsage]

I certainly don't want to come across as defending the IDF, and I think that more or less indiscriminate bombing of an area that you've previously ordered people to move to for their own safety comes close enough to terrorism that I'm not going to quibble, but is there any substantive reason to suggest that the family were deliberately targeted, rather than just being a few of the many casualities of indiscriminate bombing of civilians?

It seems suspicious to me. I remember seeing a photo of the targetted building earlier which raised questions but can't seem to find it now.

 

[8ball]

And neither are their children.

They stayed in the vicinity of the journalists despite warnings to move away from military targets.

 

[Mr.Bishie]

Thought you'd have me on ignore. Believe me I've wanted to tell lots of people on this thread to just fuck off.

I’ve been on these boards nearly 25 years, & not one poster on ignore - not even shite like you mate.

 

[Rob Ray]

No I think it's weird that he says that I'm an "apologist for war crimes" and that my "language and sentiments are vile" although the extent of this would seem to be my failure to condemn Israel right now. If he can't see that his posts own about the Hamas attack are at least equivalent or not worse than mine regarding Israel then he is exceedingly uninsightful.

People have said you're an apologist for war crimes because you've refused to acknowledge any have happened despite flamingly obvious examples in the form of things like official Israeli government policy on aid, water supplies etc. What you quoted is a sentence in which he refused to be drawn into this simpleminded bollocks about wevver he's fweinds wiv Hamas. these things are not the same.

 

[platinumsage]

People have said you're an apologist for war crimes because you've refused to acknowledge any have happened despite flamingly obvious examples in the form of things like official Israeli government policy on aid, water supplies etc. What you quoted is a sentence in which he refused to be drawn into this simpleminded bollocks about wevver he's fweinds wiv Hamas. these things are not the same.

How many flamingly obvious war crimes did Hamas commit and how much time did Larry O'Hara spend acknowledging those war crimes before looking for justifications?