platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Still shocked you rumbled me because of my paring knives. 
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
You said that you couldn’t possibly find fault with any of Israel’s actions, because Hamas and/or Egypt could act to relieve the issue.
I guess that’s just like you couldn’t possibly find fault with any of the kidnappers because Israel could just solve that problem by immediately giving in to all Hamas’ demands and vacating the land.
I know people are curious about how platinumsage has got to where they're at. TBH, it's probably a fairly common view in Israel and very common among its supporters. I've certainly seen people argue similar online. Palestinians are a problem population who are immediately suspect because of the proliferation of Jew hatred and we mourn their deaths but it's fundamentally their own fault. It's a genre of Israeli commentary with it's own name - shoot and cry. Or in this case ethnically cleanse and cry. Or maybe even commit genocide and cry.
Until platinumsage questions their assumptions about Arabs there's not going to be any movement. The massacres of 7/10 will have hardened many hearts and its the natural direction of travel for people who already think Arabs are an other. And ironically many who think this way will think they are motivated by anti-racism and that their interlocutors are unconscious anti-semites. This is why there is an urge to think up outlandish equivalents - what would Britain do if the IRA fired missiles at London etc... I've seen that one before. Israel is uniquely maligned for its defense of itself against the irrational violent other. Tactically the thought experiment is a way of switching the conversation into a conversation of that unique condemnation and the insinuation of anti-semitism. And implicitly it contains the assumption that there needs to be the sad but brutal application of logic to the problem population and the assumption is so deeply embedded that it is impossible to conceive that others do not naturally perceive it as well.
Anyway I've seen this before, I've explored it and it's now not interesting to me. I get it, it's shit.
Until platinumsage questions their assumptions about Arabs there's not going to be any movement. The massacres of 7/10 will have hardened many hearts and its the natural direction of travel for people who already think Arabs are an other. And ironically many who think this way will think they are motivated by anti-racism and that their interlocutors are unconscious anti-semites. This is why there is an urge to think up outlandish equivalents - what would Britain do if the IRA fired missiles at London etc... I've seen that one before. Israel is uniquely maligned for its defense of itself against the irrational violent other. Tactically the thought experiment is a way of switching the conversation into a conversation of that unique condemnation and the insinuation of anti-semitism. And implicitly it contains the assumption that there needs to be the sad but brutal application of logic to the problem population and the assumption is so deeply embedded that it is impossible to conceive that others do not naturally perceive it as well.
Anyway I've seen this before, I've explored it and it's now not interesting to me. I get it, it's shit.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
No, I didn't say that at all.
Raheem
Well-Known Member
And yet you think it will help Gaza.
Very eloquently put.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
The outlandish IRA equivalent was a question put to me, I've fielded quite a few analogies from people keen not to address things directly, like kabbes most recently with his house.
You really think you've got me measured down to an anti-Arab racist, which would be laughable if you actually knew me, but I guess makes it for a nice little polemic there.
I don't think labelling you as a racist is productive. There are Israelis who think as I have outlined who are best friends with Arabs (who are after all 20% of the Israeli population). "I like them but I wish they weren't cruel to us".
Rob Ray
Weight is meaningless
It is possible to get on perfectly fine with people of every background in everyday life, and yet condone outrageous levels of racism under the flimsiest of pretexts. In this case, the idea that the deaths of 6,400 people, displacement of a million people, and the upcoming death and destitution of countless more is justifiable for one group in a way that 1,400 deaths is not for another.
teqniq
DisMembered
But that is exactly what you are advocating. Consider this post I made a couple of days ago which you may have missed:
The position paper (or rather the tweet that the person linked to has since been deleted, why is that I wonder?). However the translation I asked Twitter to perform is still on here for all to see. Simply put if Palesitinians were actually offered the possibility of relocating to the Sinai as refugees they would not be allowed to return. Both the Egyptians and the Palestinians know this and in fact most Palestinians in present-day Gaza are actually descendants of people who were ethnically cleansed from parts of what Israel now considers to be it's own. Further to this the Egyptian state has another very good, self-interested reason not to allow Palestinians to relocate as refugees. It would destabilise the state itself by having a large number of very angry disaffected Palestinians within it's own borders with Egyptian people already very sympathetic to their cause.
The tweet that I linked to has since had a couple of replies which are worth looking at, this:
and this rather charming outlook:
E2A the actual position paper was linked to in the deleted tweet and I had a look at it. It's in Hebrew so you would have to use google translate to read it unless of course you understand Hebrew, here is a link to the .pdf (I have also downloaded it in case they decide to make it private):
Last edited:
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Sadly it doesn't surprise me that the perceptions that many Jewish and Arabic people from that part of the world have about each other has been coloured by the previous century of conflict.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
But that is exactly what you are advocating. Consider this post I made a couple of days ago which you may have missed:
The position paper (or rather the tweet that the person linked to has since been deleted, why is that I wonder?). However the translation I asked Twitter to perform is still on here for all to see. Simply put if Palesitinians were actually offered the possibility of relocating to the Sinai as refugees they would not be allowed to return. Both the Egyptians and the Palestinians know this and in fact most Palesinians in present-day Gaza are actually descendants of people who were ethnically cleansed from parts of what Israel now considers to be it's own. Further to this the Egyptian state has another very good, self-interested reason not to allow Palestinians to relocate as refugees. It would destabilise the state itself by having a large number of very angry disaffected Palestinians within it's own borders with Egyptian people already very sympathetic to their cause.
The tweet that I linked to has since had a couple of replies which are worth looking at, this:
View attachment 397045
and this rather charming outlook:
I get what you're saying but surely the decision on whether to move to Egypt or not should be one for the Palestinians. Security concerns aside, what right do Egypt or other countries have to make that decision for them by refusing to accept refugees?
See for example Jeffrey Goldberg, who was a former prison guard during the first intifada but struck up a friendship with a Palestinian inmate. A lot of liberals understand racism in psychological terms rather than systemic terms.
Kaka Tim
Half Arsed and Slapdash till I Die
Palastainians havent "decided" to move to egypt. Israel wants to force them there under threat of death. Which is why egypt is enitled to say "fuck off - we are not complying with your ethnic cleasing"
Last edited:
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
PS is only responding to being tagged and quoted.
The reality is, most of his interlocutors would rather argue with him than discuss the subject matter with others. If that weren't the case, your perfectly on topic posts would be gaining more traction.
I’m sorry, did I miss a post where you were willing to criticise Israel’s actions against the Gazan residents?
The post we’re all currently reacting to is this one (my bolding):
As far as I can see, you haven’t criticised Israel at all, let alone exclusively. And yet you will criticise Egypt, apparently, on the grounds that THEY could provide relief by facilitating Palestinians in fleeing from those visiting genocide upon them.
So the perpetrators of the violence bear no blame, on the grounds that those being attacked could just run away and abandon everything they have (if only those pesky Egyptians allowed it).
There is a clear parallel here to blaming Israel for what happens to the kidnap victims, on the grounds that Israelis also could just run away and abandon everything they have.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Maybe you've a choice word or two to say about this As war rages, Israel directs its anger at Palestinian prisoners
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
No they haven't, Egypt is denying them a choice. Surely it's the Palestinians who should decide whether to say "fuck off" or not, that's what self-determination means.
prunus
Tick tock.
This (the claim that uk donated pots and pans were discarded) is I am pretty certain a well-debunked urban myth. They were, especially the aluminium ones (the Uk has no meaningful local sources of bauxite) recycled into - well stone the crows - important items for the war effort.
Try to not give into cynicism, and avoid such motivated reasoning. The world is shite in many ways alright, but that doesn’t mean everything is lies.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
No it isn't Self-determination - Wikipedia
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
Sure, Israeli authorities shouldn't direct their anger at Palestinian prisoners
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
It's not even Hobson's choice.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
A march of six thousand miles begins with a single step and tho this may be baby steps atm it's good to see you on the move
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
Yes, s-d is not hobson's choice
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
So why won't you condemn 'the events of the past couple of weeks' then?
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
I already explained that, you'll have to look it up.
cupid_stunt
Chief seagull hater & farmerbarleymow's nemesis.
Of course he's being tagged and quoted, that is how forums work, especially when there's a plonker posting complete nonsense.
You've done enough trolling over the years to know this.
Similar threads
