Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[TopCat]

Respect to Gramsci and littlebabyjesus and any other urbanites in attendance on todays March.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Bottleneck at Hyde park corner.

Gonna need a bigger route

 

[PTK]

Respect to Gramsci and littlebabyjesus and any other urbanites in attendance on todays March.

Yes, respect to those attending. I would if I could.

 

[tim]

So if Jordan, Lebanon, Iran, Iraq etc all send battalions that make incursions into Israel, you think Israel’s response would be more to throw nuclear bombs at all those capitals? And that the rest of the world would continue to back them following that kind of globe-damaging atrocity?

Which of those states do you think re either willing or capable of making such land-based incursions? I don't think either Lebanon or Jordan are and they are the only ones you mentioned with actual land borders. with Israel or the occupied territories. Syria does too but is not capable of controlling its own territory, so is not in a position to reclaim the Golan Heights.

 

[kabbes]

Which of those states do you think re either willing or capable of making such land-based incursions? I don't think either Lebanon or Jordan are and they are the only ones you mentioned with actual land borders. with Israel or the occupied territories. Syria does too but is not capable of controlling its own territory, so is not in a position to reclaim the Golan Heights.

Honestly, I have no idea. But Mr.Bishie earlier mentioned reports of those countries moving brigades to the borders.

 

[agricola]

Yes, respect to those attending. I would if I could.

same here

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Pressure is growing on Biden as protests around the world ramps up:

 

[Gramsci]

The march today is huge

 

[Kid_Eternity]

AP might be a bit more credible than some of the ‘analysts’ opining on this.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

This is just wow

 

[ska invita]

AP might be a bit more credible than some of the ‘analysts’ opining on this.

incredible?

 

[mojo pixy]

What I would like to see more than anything is a long-term solution that both sides can live with. I just don't know what that solution looks like.

I'm quoting you again because I don't know if you know this and it's important.

Between ~1997 and ~2001 there was (or seemed to be) a brief period of relative peace and optimism. I was there during this time and I remember how it felt (at least how it felt among a bunch of Tel Avivi liberal ravers and stoners...)

After the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin by an ultra-religious settler it was as if Israel entered a period of soul searching, for a while a sense was expressed more publicly that maybe we could try harder for peace; Ehud Barak tried to form a coalition across the political spectrum but it fell apart, the 2000 Camp David peace talks failed, and the Israeli right pushed hard on both these failures so that Ariel Sharon won 2001's special prime minister election, and Ehud Barak resigned.

Ariel Sharon then ignited the so-called Second Intifada by parading around Al Aqsa mosque in a show of domination, and sticking a huge wall through Jerusalem when the inevitable happened.

Yigal Amir murdered arguably the most progressive, conciliatory leader Israel has ever had. So it seems to me that the two most pivotal events that a generation ago turned possible peace into inevitable war, were carried out by people on the extreme right of Israeli politics.

This is why I can't uncritically stand with Israel. For me it's not even anti zionism, I'm not that and never have been. It's that for the last 22 years Israel has been cruising further and further to the right, and shows no sign of stopping. It's currently a danger to the entire region including itself, and at the moment all the UK is doing is offering to hold its coat.

Madness.

 

[Chz]

incredible?

Reposting again the sole major international news outlet (and I'm being really generous to C4 there, they're just not as credible as AP) that agrees with you doesn't increase the likelihood of it being correct.

Theu could be right against all odds, but it does look really improbable.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

People still streaming through at Piccadilly circus. This is huuuuuuge

 

[The39thStep]

The march today is huge View attachment 396399

I'm a bit disappointed that urban posters for OSINT didn't have a stall tbh

 

[Wilf]

It looks like we picked different sides. Good luck with your choice.

As in 'my side will kill yours'?

 

[Mr.Bishie]

ffs!

4 minutes ago

The Israeli military dropped leaflets in Gaza informing citizens they would be "identified as a partner in a terrorist organisation" if they didn't adhere to Israel's orders to move south.
The Israeli forced displacement orders to 1.1m Palestinians living in north Gaza, without any guarantees of safety or return, are a crime against humanity and a blatant violation of international humanitarian law, according to a UN expert.
The army has ordered hospitals, Unrwa schools and citizens to move to the southern part of Gaza. Hospitals and hundreds of thousands of people have refused to comply.
An Israeli air strike killed at least 70 people who were on a convoy last week from north to south Gaza, following the orders by Israel. The Israeli air force has also continued to pummel south Gaza.
"Urgent warning! To the residents of Gaza - your presence north of Wadi Gaza is putting your lives at risk," the Israeli military leaflets dropped in Gaza on Saturday read.
"Anyone who chooses not to evacuate from the north of the Gaza Strip to the south of the Gaza Strip may be identified as a partner in a terrorist organisation."

Israel-Palestine live: Week three ends with over 7,000 Palestinians killed

Israeli attacks show no sign of abating going into the fourth week of bombardment

www.middleeasteye.net

 

[nino_savatte]

So whats your opinion smarty pants? What is the solution? What would have been an appropriate and proportionate response to the Hamas attack?

This is what's commonly known as the "do you still beat your wife" question. You need to engage your brain a little more.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

So whats your opinion smarty pants? What is the solution? What would have been an appropriate and proportionate response to the Hamas attack?

No problem with an IDF PR flunkey posting here: but why don’t you use the logo on your profile?

 

[agricola]

AP might be a bit more credible than some of the ‘analysts’ opining on this.

That is mostly the same sort of people who've been featured in all the attempted rebuttals though, with all the same framing points (that the crater was smaller than a airdropped bomb would have left, that Israeli bombs only blow up buildings, that a "Hamas spokesman" had said rather than the hospital reporting it themselves etc) that are specifically in there to mislead. Was it an airdropped, explode on contact with the ground bomb? No. Are they the only things the IDF have been using? No:

Al-Ahli Arab Hospital’s operators posted on its website that the facility’s cancer center was struck by Israel three days before the deadly blast, leaving a hole in an exterior wall and an unexploded artillery shell next to an ultrasound machine.

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

This is what's commonly known as the "do you still beat your wife" question. You need to engage your brain a little more.

 

[Knotted]

I liked this banner.



Climbers are always impressive, not a great photo unfortunately.



On the other hand there was some Islamist with a banner saying Khaybar Khaybar. Twat. And I saw two weaponsing the holocaust. But that's out of hundreds. All peaceful and good natured. The usual slogans seem way too optimistic but there was a real feeling that Gaza/Palestine would not be abandoned. I didn’t stay for the speakers.

 

[strung out]

That is mostly the same sort of people who've been featured in all the attempted rebuttals though, with all the same framing points (that the crater was smaller than a airdropped bomb would have left, that Israeli bombs only blow up buildings, that a "Hamas spokesman" had said rather than the hospital reporting it themselves etc) that are specifically in there to mislead. Was it an airdropped, explode on contact with the ground bomb? No. Are they the only things the IDF have been using? No:

There’s also the video of a Palestinian rocket detonating in mid air over the hospital, and then 5-15 seconds later, footage of the hospital bursting into flames from the falling rocket, coupled with the post-explosion pictures showing damage consistent with exploding fuel from a rocket, as well as the complete lack of any missile fragments proving it was an IDF munition.

Anyway, this has been done to death now, the IDF and Israeli government are cunts and the Palestinian people are the victims in all of this. I do think it’s important to get this stuff right though, because it undermines the credibility of other more accurate reporting of IDF war crimes otherwise.

 

[Knotted]

Oh yeah and Tony Greenstein was standing there holding/promoting his book Zionism in the Holocaust or something. Just what we need.

 

[Ax^]

So whats your opinion smarty pants? What is the solution? What would have been an appropriate and proportionate response to the Hamas attack?

firing you in a missile towards the sun...

before we dismiss it out of hand we must first attempt to do it and see if it helps matters

 

[Ax^]

fair play to all urbs who went to on the march today

 

[Knotted]

How would you know that? Even if true there is clearly enough who do to get the job done.

There are Jews such as Amira Hass and Sara Roy who have lived in Gaza and been welcomed there.

 

[Gramsci]

I left march about three. Still people coming down

 

[Gramsci]

I have a lot of photos. Will put them up on protest / demo forum on new thread

 

[Gramsci]

Looks like big turnout
.

Pro-Palestinian protests take place in London, Birmingham, Cardiff, Belfast and Salford

The protests come as aid deliveries reach Gaza for the first time since the Hamas attack on Israel.

www.bbc.com

The Met Police estimated up to 100,000 people had joined the march, which was due to end in a rally near Downing Street, as of 14:00 BST.