Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[two sheds]

Apparently Kate Burley didn't say that after all I apologize for a potentially misleading representation

 

[AnnO'Neemus]

Some context as there is no explanation with this tweet. I nicked this from a shorter vid: This is an Egyptian podacaster called Rahma Zein confronting CNN reporter Clarissa Ward at the Rafah crossing.

I mean, the Egyptian podcaster has a point, well, many valid points really. Surprising to hear the CNN reporter "promise" that it will air. I wonder if it did.

 

[two sheds]

Sadly my view of this is that there is no solution and "the west" need to choose a side. Two-state solution solves nothing. Single state solution is impossible because Palestinians will outnumber Israelis and that would be extremely bad news for Israelis as October 7th showed.
Much as I dislike a lot of what Israel is doing I am not sure what alternative they have. How should they have responded to events of 7th October? What would have been an appropriate and proportionate response? Or were they expected to do nothing? Hamas ran back into Gaza with their hostages and are now hiding behind women and children. If anyone is to blame for what is happening to the people of Gaza it is Hamas. I don't want to see Palestinian women and kids blown to pieces but nor do I want to see Israelis slaughtered in their own homes, bodies beheaded, young women kidnapped and abused. I have chosen my side and I am sticking with it.
Finally, I will be most surprised if it does turn out to be an Israeli rocket that hit the hospital. There will be fragments of it all over the place and I am sure the Palestinians would have been more than happy to show them.

Congratulations, that's the exact same justification that Hamas used, but in reverse.

 

[Gramsci]

Trouble with Starmer is that in this case s section of Joe public is getting angry with what hes saying. He cant just blame it on the usual suspects.

And trying to paint all those who support Palestinian rights as anti semites is now backfiring.

He has had such an easy ride of it since being leader. When he becomes PM how is he going to deal with any opposition to his policies? This is imo is weakness.

 

[Gramsci]

'Anti-Zionism feeds antisemitism. To fight racism, Labour must recognise this' - LabourList

At the heart of the shocking growth of antisemitism in the Labour party after 2015 rested a myth…

labourlist.org

This written before the bombing of Gaza is example of what Starmer thinks.

Anti Zionism is equated with anti semitism.

As is criticism of Isreal state as being Apartheid state.

It true the history of the party is that it supported the Balfour declaration.

What Im say is that the Labour party is a broad chuch and should allow a range of opinions. Banning MPs / Cllrs/ Labour party banners from marches to support Palestinians is the end result of policies advocated in the Labour list article. Its wrong.

The bombing of Gaza is first test of this view and its been show to have alienated a section of the people in UK and party.

 

[platinumsage]

It's great this thread is now about the UK Labour party. Perhaps the splitters should start a new party, the Labour (Freedom to Deride the Apartheid Zionist Entity) Party. I'm sure they'd do well in a general election.

 

[nino_savatte]

While this is going on, settlers continue to take land in the West Bank by smashing up peoples homes and livelihoods

‘The most successful land-grab strategy since 1967’ as settlers push Bedouins off West Bank territory

Herders report violence driving them from their homes in accelerating, aggressive and highly effective campaign

www.theguardian.com

Pretty sure that similar was done in the US West against the native Americans, and countless more episodes throughout history

Indeed, the comparisons with Manifest Destiny are valid. The Indian Removal Act of 1830 and the Trail of Tears.

The Indian Removal Act and the Trail of Tears

The Cherokee adjusted to White U.S. culture and won a case at the Supreme Court, but were still forced off their land.

education.nationalgeographic.org

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

Sadly my view of this is that there is no solution and "the west" need to choose a side. Two-state solution solves nothing. Single state solution is impossible because Palestinians will outnumber Israelis and that would be extremely bad news for Israelis as October 7th showed.
Much as I dislike a lot of what Israel is doing I am not sure what alternative they have. How should they have responded to events of 7th October? What would have been an appropriate and proportionate response? Or were they expected to do nothing? Hamas ran back into Gaza with their hostages and are now hiding behind women and children. If anyone is to blame for what is happening to the people of Gaza it is Hamas. I don't want to see Palestinian women and kids blown to pieces but nor do I want to see Israelis slaughtered in their own homes, bodies beheaded, young women kidnapped and abused. I have chosen my side and I am sticking with it.
Finally, I will be most surprised if it does turn out to be an Israeli rocket that hit the hospital. There will be fragments of it all over the place and I am sure the Palestinians would have been more than happy to show them.

So what you're saying is that whatever the Israeli state chooses to do, you will support it, regardless of the consequences. You've chosen your side and there is no more to say. So if the rest of us pick a side and stick with it come what may, as you have, we will no longer need to discuss anything.

 

[nino_savatte]

Sadly my view of this is that there is no solution and "the west" need to choose a side. Two-state solution solves nothing. Single state solution is impossible because Palestinians will outnumber Israelis and that would be extremely bad news for Israelis as October 7th showed.
Much as I dislike a lot of what Israel is doing I am not sure what alternative they have. How should they have responded to events of 7th October? What would have been an appropriate and proportionate response? Or were they expected to do nothing? Hamas ran back into Gaza with their hostages and are now hiding behind women and children. If anyone is to blame for what is happening to the people of Gaza it is Hamas. I don't want to see Palestinian women and kids blown to pieces but nor do I want to see Israelis slaughtered in their own homes, bodies beheaded, young women kidnapped and abused. I have chosen my side and I am sticking with it.
Finally, I will be most surprised if it does turn out to be an Israeli rocket that hit the hospital. There will be fragments of it all over the place and I am sure the Palestinians would have been more than happy to show them.

Ah, binarism.

 

[Knotted]

Notice how HazeyCosmicJive includes some performative both sidesism and gets a hearing from some even though they are saying the IDF bear no responsibility for civilian deaths.

 

[xenon]

Apparently Kate Burley didn't say that after all I apologize for a potentially misleading representation

I googled after reading your post a little while ago. Apparently she's come in for criticism, Offcom complaints, for twisting the UK Palestinian ambassador's words on 10/10/23 to saying Israel had it coming.

 

[Sasaferrato]

Glad to see that there are some supplies going in now.

 

[teqniq]

Glad to see that there are some supplies going in now.

No fuel though without which hospitals are really fucked.

 

[teqniq]

It's great this thread is now about the UK Labour party. Perhaps the splitters should start a new party, the Labour (Freedom to Deride the Apartheid Zionist Entity) Party. I'm sure they'd do well in a general election.

No, it's not. That is just one aspect which what with this being a UK-based board it would surprising if there were no observations on the position of Starmer and the PLP.

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

The only just settlement is a single secular, democratic state, in which the refugees have the right to return. A bi-national state, in which the two nations – Israeli Jews and Palestinian Arabs – are guaranteed “parity of esteem” (as it is called in the Belfast Good Friday Agreement).

How would this work? Who resolves conflicts between Israeli settlers and Palestinians? What happens to the land Israelis have already taken and redeveloped? Something like this is the only feasible long-term solution.

Palestinian Arabs do not have an instinctual desire to slaughter every Israeli Jew, anymore than the Irish Republican Army wanted to slaughter every Protestant in Northern Ireland.

How would you know that? Even if true there is clearly enough who do to get the job done.

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

Were you born on the 6th October?

It looks like we picked different sides. Good luck with your choice.

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

Congratulations, that's the exact same justification that Hamas used, but in reverse.

How so?

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

So what you're saying is that whatever the Israeli state chooses to do, you will support it, regardless of the consequences. You've chosen your side and there is no more to say. So if the rest of us pick a side and stick with it come what may, as you have, we will no longer need to discuss anything.

I will reply to your questions when you reply to mine.

How should they have responded to events of 7th October? What would have been an appropriate and proportionate response? Or were they expected to do nothing?

 

[ska invita]

oh no not a 'new' poster

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

Ah, binarism.

Is that reply solely intended to show all other posters how clever you are? It doesn't add anything to the discussion.

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

So what you're saying is that whatever the Israeli state chooses to do, you will support it, regardless of the consequences. You've chosen your side and there is no more to say. So if the rest of us pick a side and stick with it come what may, as you have, we will no longer need to discuss anything.

Nicely dodged. I will reply to you when you answer my questions.

How should they have responded to events of 7th October? What would have been an appropriate and proportionate response? Or were they expected to do nothing?

 

[nino_savatte]

Is that reply solely intended to show all other posters how clever you are? It doesn't add anything to the discussion.

No, it's intended to show how limited your thinking is, and let's face it, all you have is "both-sidesism". You're a hasbara, right?

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

Notice how HazeyCosmicJive includes some performative both sidesism and gets a hearing from some even though they are saying the IDF bear no responsibility for civilian deaths.

I have no idea what you are rambling on about. Is English an additional language? Did you use Google translate? If so, I will cut you some slack.

 

[The39thStep]

oh no not a 'new' poster

Added to the smallish list I have of posters that are a possible cure for insomnia

 

[mojo pixy]

It looks like we picked different sides.

Prick

Good luck with your choice.

Fuck off

And before you complain about my rudeness, let me assure you I can and will engage positively if you post anything interesting, useful, compassionate or original.

Till then, just keep fucking off

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

No, it's intended to show how limited your thinking is, and let's face it, all you have is "both-sidesism". You're a hasbara, right?

OK. Whereas you have ..... nothing. No opinion, you just sit and snipe at people who have the balls to express one. So come on, tell us how to resolve this. btw I have no idea what a hasbara is and don't intend to look it up.

 

[HazeyCosmicJive]

Prick

Fuck off

And before you complain about my rudeness, let me assure you I can and will engage positively if you post anything interesting, useful, compassionate or original.

Till then, just keep fucking off

Don't sit on the fence. Tell me what you really think.

 

[nino_savatte]

OK. Whereas you have ..... nothing. No opinion, you just sit and snipe at people who have the balls to express one. So come on, tell us how to resolve this. btw I have no idea what a hasbara is and don't intend to look it up.

The state of you.

Anyone can express an opinion; it doesn't take "balls" as you claim here. Opinions are like arseholes: everyone has one, and not all opinions are equal.

 

[nino_savatte]

Don't sit on the fence. Tell me what you really think.

You're a tough guy, too.

 

[mojo pixy]

Don't sit on the fence. Tell me what you really think.

OK: fuck off, again. HtH.