Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Not really a thread for sarcasm & lols, but maybe that’s just me.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
TopCat
Putin fanboy
The freed US hostages. What is their favourite colour?
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Stop with the riddles C
TopCat
Putin fanboy
I know we should respect their privacy but I’m sure I will have the answers soon.
Bingoman
Well-Known Member
And where do they expect this people to go, Gaza is already packed in one area as it is
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Thinking about it. Why those two?
Kevbad the Bad
Amiable Bowel Syndrome
I was in two minds about posting that, sorry if I misjudged it.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Isreali human rights organisation view of the bombing and ( now likely ) ground offensive.
Posting to show not all Israelis are backing this government.
I didn't really think the Israel government would still be bombing and now it looks like a ground offensive is seriously on the cards.
Instead of listening to dissident voices of Israelis the present leadership of Labour party is supporting a right wing Israeli government. Giving them license to bomb Gaza and silencing any dissent in the ranks of Labour party.
Both Starmer and Sunak are supporting revenge as a plan.
I know posters here like me can be derided as loony , post truth or not adults understanding the finer points of high diplomacy but to my mind the bit I high lighted in the BTSelem piece is neither based on knee jerk emotional reaction or loony left. Its pragmatic reasoned comment.
Our leaders in this country could take note of this. Even if it is a minority voice.
Posting to show not all Israelis are backing this government.
I didn't really think the Israel government would still be bombing and now it looks like a ground offensive is seriously on the cards.
Instead of listening to dissident voices of Israelis the present leadership of Labour party is supporting a right wing Israeli government. Giving them license to bomb Gaza and silencing any dissent in the ranks of Labour party.
Both Starmer and Sunak are supporting revenge as a plan.
I know posters here like me can be derided as loony , post truth or not adults understanding the finer points of high diplomacy but to my mind the bit I high lighted in the BTSelem piece is neither based on knee jerk emotional reaction or loony left. Its pragmatic reasoned comment.
Our leaders in this country could take note of this. Even if it is a minority voice.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
The context:
Conquer and Divide
Check out Conquer and Divide, a special interactive project that shows how Israel fragmented Palestinian space.
conquer-and-divide.btselem.org
Chz
Stark Raving Sane
The reason why Starmer and Sunak support revenge is simple. It's the same reason the US vetoes any UN resolutions. Israel needs to be allowed to handle external threats in any manner it deems acceptable - including bombing civilians - so that the US and the UK will also be allowed to do so. (the French are pretty keen, too)
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Not derided by the majority here, fortunately. I think sometimes people can find it hard to accept how terrible the world can be. That the Israeli government would have purposely fostered the divisions within Palestinian resistance to the extent of enabling Hamas may seem too terrible to accept, perhaps. But that's not post truth. It's just truth.
I think many people have similar problems accepting the evil deeds the USA has engaged in over the years, propping up vile dictators, running torture schools and the rest of it.
It's not just them, of course. Saudi Arabia funds the schools that produced the Taliban, for example, and again this is a deliberate strategy, not an accident.
Some truly awful things are done in the name of 'high diplomacy'. It's not done for our benefit. It doesn't keep us safe. Quite the reverse. Saying that is not loony.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I have been reading a bit on the history of Hamas. The way he spoke is in line with what the book Im reading says.
I noticed he did not like Hamas being compared with ISIS.
Its not anything like ISIS. Hamas grew out of the Palestinian section of the Muslim Brotherhood. For years not directly involved in politics but preaching/ education and charity work. Aiming to improve the Muslim people.
Hamas was a step to direct political involvement. As the book say Hamas learnt to temper the overt religious doctrine. Showed a pragmatism to deal with political realities of Palestinian people.
Listening to the interview and he rarely refers to religious doctrine. In defense of Hamas attacks he mentions Algeria / Vietnam and Russia fighting the Nazis.
When Hamas moved into politics it had to temper its message to appeal to Palestinians and those who supported them in other Arab countries.
So as in the interview the emphasis is on secular things like resisting occupation.
Also from the interview the Hamas movement military actions are purely national. Not a global jihad. Its military actions are nationalist.
So no its not Bin Laden or ISIS.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
Couldn't really disagree more with this - being on the Security Council allows you to do pretty much anything (as the US has shown repeatedly, plus Russia in Chechnya and the SU in Afghanistan etc). They don't need Israel to set a precedent, and in many cases those acts of theirs wildly complicate the relations of the US.
Take Iran for instance - there are multiple occasions where the US could have conceivably at least started a path to improving relations; on every occasion Israeli pressure exerted within domestic US politics (often combined with Saudi pressure) has effectively wrecked those chances.
ska invita
back on the other side
I dont think its that simple at all....other countries aren't allowed by the US/UK to act with such impunity, far from it...they're not setting a universal standard for all states to follow
the nature of the US / Israel relationship is complex - Id be interested to read more what people know of it
I think the modern relationship with Israel is much more about having a reliable and dominant proxy base of power in the region...not unlike Gibraltar or the Falkland Islands, other than its in the middle of a much more volatile (oil rich) area and has nuclear weapons...
the long term palestine conflict situation is clearly solvable and the power is in the US's hands to push to make it happen.....obviously consecutive israeli governments are basically set on ethic cleansing, thats hard to change....but the US does have leverage on that.....why there appears to be no appetite to do that I don't know tbh....it doesnt make sense in a sane world...even trying get in their most evil minds i dont see what benefit there is to it...that palestinians in an equal one state society would take control democratically and the US would lose its base? Who knows how these sick poeple think tbh.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
it's a part of Israel, after all, according to many, including Netanyahu.
ska invita
back on the other side
i find it hard to understand such delusion - diplomacy? wtf?
www.theguardian.com
hug kiss 14 billion dollars more weapons veto ceasefire go for it do whatever- what planet are these people on who think the US (and UK pathetic lapdog post credits show) is doing some kind of horse whispering diplomacy? are they just fantasists? what am i missing?
The Gaza diplomacy of Biden, Sunak and co seems to be heading for failure
The US president was empathetic, sharp and subtle, but there are signs that his closest Arab allies are losing patience
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I read One Complete Palestine by Tom Segev a while back. A history of the Mandate. By end I was wondering why Britain got involved. Some Foreign office hands in book thought it was of little strategic interest, had no oil or valuable resources to exploit. The argument between Zionists and Palestinians was not worth the bother in overall needs of running an Empire. I do wonder the rationality behind supporting Israel on a imperialistic power basis.
Listening to Al Jazeera last night and one commenter referred to the impunity as what in region they call "Israeli Exceptionalism"
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
There are common points between the Gaza war and the Bosnian genocide
As a justice activist from Bosnia, I see the conditions for genocide in Gaza.
View from a Bosnian on this.
Telling thing he says is at least the people who perpetrated these crimes finally came to justice. And that international community agreed this had happened. He feels privileged in this sense as the people of Gaza arent getting this.
What with Israeli exceptionalism Israeli war criminals will never face justice
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
PTK
Paul Kegan
Who would ever have predicted that Starmer would get in trouble over the Palestine-Israel conflict?
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WhyLikeThis
Something, something, something
Whoever thought believing what Netanyahu spouts could mislead? I’m shocked I tells you.
Channel 4 reporting on the Netanyahu disinformation:
Channel 4 reporting on the Netanyahu disinformation:
HazeyCosmicJive
Member
I hope they are not storing the fresh fruit next to the rockets.
Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
PTK
Paul Kegan
I did not see anyone predicting this.
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Larry O'Hara
Well-Known Member
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
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