Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
It’s almost like there’s a big presidential election on the horizon…
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
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Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Well worth your time.
platinumsage
HaveMyPassword123
I note the BBC consulted Justin Bronk for their fact check, whose Twitter analysis was posted upthread and quickly rubbished for being unreliable.
Mr.Bishie
pickled egg
Yet you’re quick to post X from the IDF!!
The39thStep
Urban critical thinker
A very much younger Biden succinctly answered that question in a video knocking about where he says :
“If there were not an Israel we'd have to invent one. It is the best $3 billion investment we make. Were there not in Israel the US of America would have to invent an Israel to protect her interest in the region.The US would have to go out and invent an Israel”
Cloo
Banana for scale
I mean, there's no proving anything about the hospital because even if someone relatively respectable produced a video saying it came from here or there, everyone could say that it could perfectly easily have been digitally manipulated (doubtless there are already such 'proofs' of both circulating social media already).
I'm afraid, much as I'd wish it otherwise for so many reasons, if Israel is going show itself capable of besieging millions of civilians against all international rules of engagement, that makes it look awfully like a regime that would bomb a hospital.
I'm afraid, much as I'd wish it otherwise for so many reasons, if Israel is going show itself capable of besieging millions of civilians against all international rules of engagement, that makes it look awfully like a regime that would bomb a hospital.
TopCat
Putin fanboy
Biden needs the votes of the pro Israel lobby in the US to get re-elected
Humberto
Relax
Protests have at least articulated that large numbers of people in countries allied to Israel are genuinely fearful for the innocent civilians affected. It shows that people from many sectors are able to unite to exert some kind of pressure on political leaders. So I'm thankful to those who made the effort to protest and continue to do so. Because there seemed to be behaviour not far off warmongering and grandstanding from many political 'leaders'.
Biden spoke today about agreeing with the Israeli government to let humanitarian aid into Gaza from Egypt, which seems like a big deal right now. I hope that happens quickly and at the necessary scale. I fear that's a big ask but I hope so anyway. Because these people are innocent, despite efforts to blur that line by Israeli government hardliners. Their authoritarian tendencies and brutal militarism is an absolutely shit recipe for those who receive the consequences. While the hostages are still being held I expect they will claim a license to do as they want, with all the disregard for the millions who are suffering that we have already seen. I hope the fuckers are held to account for it when the time comes for it.
Biden spoke today about agreeing with the Israeli government to let humanitarian aid into Gaza from Egypt, which seems like a big deal right now. I hope that happens quickly and at the necessary scale. I fear that's a big ask but I hope so anyway. Because these people are innocent, despite efforts to blur that line by Israeli government hardliners. Their authoritarian tendencies and brutal militarism is an absolutely shit recipe for those who receive the consequences. While the hostages are still being held I expect they will claim a license to do as they want, with all the disregard for the millions who are suffering that we have already seen. I hope the fuckers are held to account for it when the time comes for it.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
He'd only get them if the Israeli government displayed any kind of respect for him; so far even the limited amount of agreements that Blinken had spent a week arranging have all been ignored. Netanyahu knows the impact on US relations that his campaign is having, he doesn't care. When he landed today some 800 settlers decided it would be a great time to go into al-Aqsa again, escorted by Israeli police.
If by some miracle this ends before the next election, I can think of nothing more guaranteed to happen than Trump being given a gilded welcome by Netanyahu to Jerusalem whilst the election campaign is underway.
Amazing stuff. Fair play to him.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I'm under no illusions about what protests can achieve. 2 million people on the streets of London couldn't stop the Iraq War. But hopefully it shows people that they are not forgotten. I think this Saturday's protests may be angrier than last week's.
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
It also answered the question of what anyone can do: organise.
two sheds
Least noticed poster 2007
And hopefully show politicians the mood of the day. Labour took many years to recover from the Iraq War debacle. There was a gradual ebbing away of support and then.....13 years of the Tories. Starmer is making the same mistake. It feels like another Iraq war moment, where you lose the core of your support to appeal to a middle ground that stands for nothing.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
I yearn for the days when I thought the middle ground stood for nothing.
" A middle ground which stands for nothing" was my assertion. The Middle Ground is a different thing.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Horrific. Dr Ghassan Abu-Sittah is the doctor who said his family have been getting harassed by police in Britain.
Wilf
Slouching towards Billingham
There's an element of Starmer's position over antisemitism, which marbled through his and the right's attacks on Corbyn, reaching its culmination here. Not the thread to derail into that too far and, fwiw, there was antisemitism in and around the Labour left, but the weaponsation of that against the left was never a principled position. Just something that could only ever find its end point in uncritical support for mass murder.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
The second speaker's position is instructive. To justify Israel's actions, this conflict needs to have started on 7 October 2023.
Bassem's piece of paper shows what Israel thinks is 'proportionate'. Roughly speaking, 10 Palestinian dead for every 1 Israeli dead. So we're still a few thousand short. And as Bassem asks, why will it be different this time?
It must have taken huge self-discipline and determination to maintain that throughout. Fair play to him.
editor
hiraethified
Could you explain why please?
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
Biden strikes a cautious tone, invoking 9/11…
Raheem
Well-Known Member
Don't think so. Israel has a ring through his nose, but electorally that's not the point. He has to back Israel if he wants to beat Trump.
Dystopiary
putting up a hook to hang my hopes upon
Yes, sadly, and it's not like they haven't done it before.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
akin to telling a drunk man to mind how he goes, whilst you give him back the keys for his fully loaded school bus
They were interviewing some Israelis who'd had to leave their homes on the R4 news at lunchtime. I found the 'othering' of the Palestinians pretty disturbing. One woman said (I'm paraphrasing from memory but this was the sentiment) 'we care about children being hurt and killed, the Palestinians don't. We have suffered like this, they haven't suffered. We are like this, they are like that.'
I mean if they'd interviewed a Palestinian who'd had to flee their home, they'd likely have said similar but it's all just so depressing.
I mean if they'd interviewed a Palestinian who'd had to flee their home, they'd likely have said similar but it's all just so depressing.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Shameful. Maybe more will sign, but currently that's even fewer Labour MPs than voted against the Iraq War. Simple human decency and compassion? Too much to ask, apparently.
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
US vetoes UN Security Council action on Israel, Gaza
The United States vetoed a United Nations Security Council resolution on Wednesday that would have called for humanitarian pauses in the conflict between Israel and Palestinian Hamas militants to allow humanitarian aid access to the Gaza Strip.www.reuters.com
See UK abstained.
This was drafted by Brazil. I was chatting to one of the Brazilians at work and he said the conflict in Israel/ Palestine has been bigger news than Ukraine.
Reason given by USA was that diplomacy should be allowed to work first. Ie US telling UN to keep out of it.
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
that and the resolution didn't explicitly state that Israel has a right to defend himself, which as one commentator put it makes no sense because that is implied of every state
Kid_Eternity
Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?
My apologies, totally missed this.
So, I thought it was interesting because the guest was given a great deal of time (which is royally took advantage of!) to actually articulate a thought. It gives a decent insight into the nuances of Palestinian politics, and how the PLO think of the people and groups like Hamas. It was also quite nice to see him talking with so much warmth about his love of his people and his upbringing despite the horrors they've experienced. What struck me was how similar the things he said were to the (very personal) conversations I've been having with my Jewish friends.
The hosts did challenge in places but it felt like an actual grown up discussion. It's refreshing in a world where everyone just seems to be aggressive and/ or shout at each other. I know TRIP isn't everyone's cup of tea but this time they've done a very good job imo in really opening up this conflict in a grown up and calm headed way. It seemed the guest - who was the PLO Ambassador to the UK - actually did appreciate the chance to talk properly and not having to jump through the usual tedious gotcha tactics too many journalists love these days.
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