Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[littlebabyjesus]

that and the resolution didn't explicitly state that Israel has a right to defend himself, which as one commentator put it makes no sense because that is implied of every state

Which itself is code for 'Israel has the right to bomb Gaza for as long as it wants'.

 

[Pickman's model]

Not really - assuming this is a genuine intercept.

What you do deliberately, having thought about it, is often very difficult to what you do in a panic when something both very bad, and completely unexpected happens.

It is interesting how people who yesterday were saying that it's very important that the Israelis did this because it shows what utter shits they are are now saying that it doesn't matter if the Israelis did this, because it's the kind of thing they do....

When I say interesting, of course what I mean is utterly predictable....

It might well be the Israelis, but the pictures we've seen so far don't show much blast damage, or a crater (with a bomb, you get one or the other, often both, but not neither - but do show lots of fire damage.

Given that the zionists have machinery to geolocate communications it'd be a brave if not foolhardy militant who made identifiable calls. If, as you say, this is a genuine intercept

 

[planetgeli]

Israeli ambassador not happy. UN security council is a 'satanic entity'.

Palestinian guy before him was quite measured...certainly compared to this. The guy's frothing.

 

[belboid]

Eli Cohen, Israeli foreign minister:

At the end of this war, not only will Hamas no longer be in Gaza, but the territory of Gaza will also decrease.

well, that'll make everything fine then

 

[Gramsci]

Someone posted this up pages back

Imperialism: An Old Labour Tradition

In his pre-conference interview on Laura Kuenssberg last week, Keir Starmer was asked what qualities he admired most in Rishi Sunak. His a...

averypublicsociologist.blogspot.com

It's saying that Starmer isn't acting out of line with traditional Labour thinking. I agree with most of article.

An argument could be that Starmer actions aren't those of a right winger but he's in the tradition of old school Labour.

Reading the history of the aftermath of WW2 in Asia

Forgotten Wars

This extraordinary book is a vivid, highly original account of the creation of a new Asia after the Second World War - an unstoppable wave of nationalism that swept the British Empire aside. It tells the definitive story of how India, Pakistan, Burma and Malaysia came into existence and how...

www.penguin.co.uk

Was an eye opener. Mainstream Labour were liberal/ whig imperialist. Of the at some point when they are ready colonial people will get self government within commonwealth.

It was the mavericks like Fenner Brockway and his movement for colonial freedom who wanted empire to end Also slightly eccentric individuals like MP Tom Dribeeg

Pacifist anti colonial internationalism was small part of Labour party and the tradition that Corbyn came from. As the article says rule based. I think the article is harsh on this part of Labour.

The difference between then and now is that Starmer and his allies are using Ukraine and now Palestine to completely get rid of this (small) section of the Labour party. Which was tolerated before.

I'm not defending Starmer. Just saying that from a longer historical perspective perhaps this is the Labour party.

 

[Pickman's model]

Just for some light relief

Woman slams selfish paragliders who made her think Hamas were invading Doncaster

'Whoever thought it was funny to parasail over the village, it was in extremely poor taste.'

metro.co.uk

 

[Larry O'Hara]

Amazing stuff. Fair play to him.

Yes he is brilliant: very subtle and clever and the casualty graph and West Bank references unanswerable

 

[Raheem]

I'm under no illusions about what protests can achieve. 2 million people on the streets of London couldn't stop the Iraq War.

Possibly stopped the subsequent Iran war, though.

 

[elbows]

Possibly stopped the subsequent Iran war, though.

Personally I think perceptions about the risk of a war with Iran have usually been distorted by some people thinking their military strength, allies and terrain were far more similar to Iraq than is actually the case. They have a different level of capabilities and ties than the sort of targets the USA & friends have gone after in recent decades.

 

[Petcha]

Jesus christ. watching c4 news. How/why is Biden the most powerful man in the world. I have a friend who suffers from a bit of narcolepsy. Who once famously managed to fall asleep on an amp at a Chemical Brothers gig at fabric while it was in full motion. My point being that maybe my mate Cas should be potus, he's a little more switched on methinks.

 

[Rimbaud]

Eli Cohen, Israeli foreign minister:


well, that'll make everything fine then

I'm amazed that some people here are credulous enough to believe that the Israelis didn't bomb the hospital and the Palestinians accidentally blew themselves up while using the hospital as a military base, when you have quite open statements of intent to carry out a campaign of ethnic cleansing of North Gaza on top of everything else.

 

[Ax^]

Jesus christ. watching c4 news. How/why is Biden the most powerful man in the world. I have a friend who suffers from a bit of narcolepsy. Who once famously managed to fall asleep on an amp at a Chemical Brothers gig at fabric while it was in full motion. My point being that maybe my mate Cas should be potus, he's a little more switched on methinks.

because the other option was and still is the orange fuck wit

who would be trying to buy the costal areas of palitisine for a fucking link golf course if he still was in power

trump insistence on sending his dumb son in law to solve the situation and he money making deal with Saudi Arabia lead to this conflict ..

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, was last spotted bobbing up and down in a pond next to a bunch of ducks.

 

[elbows]

I'm amazed that some people here are credulous enough to believe that the Israelis didn't bomb the hospital and the Palestinians accidentally blew themselves up while using the hospital as a military base, when you have quite open statements of intent to carry out a campaign of ethnic cleansing of North Gaza on top of everything else.

I can look at the signs of a particular attack and consider that with the indicators available to us at a particular moment of time, it might not have been a missile of Israel, without having to discount all of the other stuff. Currently I am of about the same view as the BBC Verify attempts to investigate this.

For example, just the fact that Israel told them to evacuate the hospitals is horror enough in its own right, regardless of whether they then went on to pound hospitals with missiles.

But I'm also aware that the amount of time and effort people put into discussing the details of any one particular incident can leave an impression what what peoples priorities are, of what side they might be taking, of their preferences, of what is more comfortable and convenient to believe, etc. I am always very interested in verification and evidence, but I'm aware that if I spend ages going on about that stuff at the expense of other horrors, it suggests some other things about me.

 

[The39thStep]

See UK abstained.

This was drafted by Brazil. I was chatting to one of the Brazilians at work and he said the conflict in Israel/ Palestine has been bigger news than Ukraine.

Reason given by USA was that diplomacy should be allowed to work first. Ie US telling UN to keep out of it.

I was speaking to a couple of Brazilians here at tea time who said the same . The USA has obviously juggled and come to the conclusion that trying to convince the global south about supporting their line on Ukraine is worth taking a hit on.

 

[Johnny Vodka]

I'm amazed that some people here are credulous enough to believe that the Israelis didn't bomb the hospital and the Palestinians accidentally blew themselves up while using the hospital as a military base, when you have quite open statements of intent to carry out a campaign of ethnic cleansing of North Gaza on top of everything else.

Ch4 news just aired a good section on the claims from both sides. Looks pretty inconclusive.

 

[Petcha]

The Israeli ambassador to the UK just now on C4 came across as 100% psychotic. Absolutely batshit.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

because the other option was and still is the orange fuck wit

who would be trying to buy the costal areas of palitisine for a fucking link golf course if he still was in power

trump insistence on sending his dumb son in law to solve the situation and he money making deal with Saudi Arabia lead to this conflict ..

 

[The39thStep]

The Israeli ambassador to the UK just now on C4 came across as 100% psychotic. Absolutely batshit.

Far right winger who even the British Board of Deputies were against

 

[Duncan2]

The Israeli ambassador to the UK just now on C4 came across as 100% psychotic. Absolutely batshit.

couldnt help noticing this.At one point she shifted her chair around as though Guru-Murthy had gone AWOL mid-interview to "address Palestinian mothers directly".The message was " get out of Dodge" a.k.a the North of Gaza.

 

[Ax^]

hmm anti war protesters are arrested more quickly than trump fan boys it seems

 

[Johnny Vodka]

The Israeli ambassador to the UK just now on C4 came across as 100% psychotic. Absolutely batshit.

Her usual disposition.

 

[Gramsci]

Looks like one of my local MPs Bell Ribeiro Addy (Socialist Campaign Group) been told to take her statement about the present violence off her website

https://bellribeiroaddy.com/statement-on-the-unfolding-situation-in-israel-gaza-and-the-occupied-palestinian-territories/

Click on it and it's not there any more

 

[Duncan2]

Despite dwelling on the hospital strike at some length c4 news did not seem to show the footage of the strike itself as apparently verified by the Washington Post.

 

[Eric Jarvis]

Ch4 news just aired a good section on the claims from both sides. Looks pretty inconclusive.

Simple fact. In a war everybody lies and generally you don't get any conclusive proof of what happened and why until after the war has ended, and often not until LONG after. The one thing we can be pretty certain about is that by and large the people responsible for the worst of it all probably survive unscathed.

 

[Ax^]

israel like the usa would never offer up one its citizens to an international court of law

so members of the IDF are quite safe from Repercussions

 

[Knotted]

Big protest in Tunis.

 

[strung out]

I'm going to take Knotted's lead and not get involved in discussions of this nature. I don't know anything for certain, but neither do random people on Twitter. It's not a rabbit hole worth investigating.

Very happy to question whether the murdered babies were beheaded or merely shot/burned to death, but not worth investigating which side was responsible for a mass casualty event that has the capacity to escalate things in an even more alarming way than they already were. Got it.

 

[Orang Utan]

Can't work out if you're trolling or just beyond help.

I think he’s just stupid and angry.

 

[ouirdeaux]

assuming this is a genuine intercept

Obviously, I don't know whether it's genuine or not. It wouldn't surprise me if the Israelis are lying. It wouldn't surprise me if Hamas is lying.

But what struck me about the tape is how calm it all was, and how easy to hear. This is a rather emotional topic. Have you ever listened to people? They tend to talk over each other, particularly when heated. They're not doing that.

OK, maybe these are very calm and polite warriors, waiting patiently for the other to finish before saying anything. Impressive if so.