Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[A380]

… admitting that a) they were wrong, and b) that they jumped in with both feet because a story fitted in with their preconceived idea.

Good job that we have this place then, where that just isn’t an issue…

 

[Gramsci]

Wait for calmer assessments?

Even without the hospital deaths the Israel state is already killing a lot of civilians. Exactly how long does waiting for a calmer assessment need to be?

 

[Ax^]

maybe we need a hamas-israeli war misinformation thread or maybe just random stuff I found in twitter

 

[Pickman's model]

It's amazing that with all their operational security, by means of which they flew under the zionists' radar, and their knowledge of their enclave hamas don't know where cemeteries are in gaza, they're willing to use names in communications, and they broadcast en clair

 

[Gramsci]

Labour Councillors Keep Quitting Over Party ‘Endorsing’ Israeli War Crimes | Novara Media

Labour has been hit with a number of resignations after its leadership affirmed Israel’s right to ‘self defence’ when asked to condemn war crimes.

novaramedia.com

“I have spent the last few days worried about the safety of my family with electricity now cut off and communication limited these worries are only exacerbated.

“These comments from the leadership have been the last straw. I can only conclude that the Labour party is no longer a safe space for Palestinians and Muslims.”

More party members and Cllrs resigning.

Labour party media briefing document from Friday 13 October seen by Novara Media shows how Labour politicians were briefed not to directly criticise potential war crimes carried out by Israel, including the siege of Gaza, cutting off water and electricity, and the use of white phosphorus. When asked about these issues, Labour politicians were encouraged to first of all reaffirm Israel’s “right to self defence” and only then add that this must be “in line with international law”.

 

[Knotted]

Israel has repeatedly bombed hospitals over the years in my memory... Pretty sure they said to evacuate hospitals this week too... It's totally deliberate and everything that follows is just hot air and cynical bullshit... they do it with glee... Netanyahus tweet is consciously taking the piss

The hospital is in Gaza City which the Israelis have demanded that civilians evacuate so there are no holds barred on northern Gaza. This bombing is completely in line with what they have been doing and saying up until now.

 

[brogdale]

Sweet.

 

[cupid_stunt]

The hospital is in Gaza City which the Israelis have demanded that civilians evacuate so there are no holds barred on northern Gaza. This bombing is completely in line with what they have been doing and saying up until now.

And. let's not forget Israel’s orders to evacuate hospitals!

The World Health Organization has condemned Israel’s repeated orders to evacuate 22 hospitals in northern Gaza that are treating more than 2000 inpatients, including newborn babies in incubators and critically ill patients on life support.1

In a statement issued on 14 October WHO labelled the call a “death sentence for the sick and injured” and said Israel must immediately reverse the order and ensure that health facilities, health workers, patients, and civilians are not targeted, as required by international law.

Plus they bombed a UN school in southern Gaza yesterday, they don't care.

Gaza: Israel’s hospital evacuation orders are “death sentence for the sick,” says WHO

The World Health Organization has condemned Israel’s repeated orders to evacuate 22 hospitals in northern Gaza that are treating more than 2000 inpatients, including newborn babies in incubators and critically ill patients on life support.1 In a statement issued on 14 October WHO labelled the...

www.bmj.com

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

With AI now it will become very difficult to properly decide which documentary evidence is genuine. Particularly with Israel, a state with a far greater ability than Hamas to arrange such things. But this will apply around the globe in conflicts where great powers are involved.

 

[Pickman's model]

And. let's not forget Israel’s orders to evacuate hospitals!



Plus they bombed a UN school in southern Gaza yesterday, they don't care.

Gaza: Israel’s hospital evacuation orders are “death sentence for the sick,” says WHO

The World Health Organization has condemned Israel’s repeated orders to evacuate 22 hospitals in northern Gaza that are treating more than 2000 inpatients, including newborn babies in incubators and critically ill patients on life support.1 In a statement issued on 14 October WHO labelled the...

www.bmj.com

Yes they're well-known liars and just on a technical point it's hard to believe that of all the things being intercepted the zionists are able to identify this conversation really quickly.

 

[Kevbad the Bad]

on a technical point it's hard to believe that of all the things being intercepted the zionists are able to identify this conversation really quickly.

Depends how good their monitoring or search software is. It might be real state of the art stuff. As might their ability to concoct such stuff themselves in a short space of time.

 

[The39thStep]

Financial Times report on the growing opposition to Labour's pro Israel position

Be interesting to see the ' online database identifying Labour MPs who are yet to call for a ceasefire in the region, along with a tool helping activists lobby them by email' that Momentum will allegedly publish. Should assist posters on here who are Labour to do something.

https://archive.ph/1I0h1

 

[kebabking]

It's amazing that with all their operational security, by means of which they flew under the zionists' radar, and their knowledge of their enclave hamas don't know where cemeteries are in gaza, they're willing to use names in communications, and they broadcast en clair

Not really - assuming this is a genuine intercept.

What you do deliberately, having thought about it, is often very difficult to what you do in a panic when something both very bad, and completely unexpected happens.

It is interesting how people who yesterday were saying that it's very important that the Israelis did this because it shows what utter shits they are are now saying that it doesn't matter if the Israelis did this, because it's the kind of thing they do....

When I say interesting, of course what I mean is utterly predictable....

It might well be the Israelis, but the pictures we've seen so far don't show much blast damage, or a crater (with a bomb, you get one or the other, often both, but not neither - but do show lots of fire damage.

 

[CNT36]

The bleeding heart liberal in me can't help thinking that whoever did it if the death toll is so much lower than initially reported that is great news.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

More insight into who is accountable for the hospital blast.

Thread by @Nrg8000 on Thread Reader App

@Nrg8000: 🧵Now that day has broken, and we're getting better evidence, I'm willing to share some PRELIMINARY thoughts on the al-Ahli hospital explosion. The photos of the scene are, to me, not consistent with an airs...…

threadreaderapp.com

 

[Knotted]

God it's like reading a 911 conspiracy theorist.

 

[Rob Ray]

Not to sound harsh, but the argument over who bombed the hospital is a case of "who wins the spectacle." It wouldn't surprise me if either case of "Hamas/Palestine supporters looking for a propaganda win" or "Israel trying to hide its culpability" were true, but this won't be the first or last case of either side doing so.

Israel's bombing and starving of civilian areas is a war crime (or rather, many war crimes) killing thousands in or out of the hospital building. That's the core reality.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

I don't think it's exactly beyond the realms of possibility that some Islamic Jihad tosser misfired a missile and hit a hospital - it's maybe a more likely scenario than the Israelis deliberately bombing a hospital just as the American president is about to board Air Force One on a visit to remind them to try to not kill too many civilians, if possible.

But I think if you were trying to at least impersonate a civilised country, you would call a ceasefire and allow aid teams to get through to retrieve the dead, dying, and injured civilians from the rubble of the bombed hospital that was packed with victims from your previous rounds of bombings, this is another war crime whether the explosion was caused by the IDF or not.

Agree with all of this.

 

[likesfish]

That's not a JDAMstrike you'd be looking at a swimming pool size hole even if it was a dud.
now could be a smaller missile like a hellfire an attempt to "surgically" kill someone they really wanted dead and blowing up a car in a crowded square especially if their were other weapons around would cause secondary detonations and fires.
The IDFare killing loads of civilians just may not be completely guilty in this one .
The "arab street" are pro the palestianian cause as long as it's Israel killing them, after Jordon and Lebannons experience of hosting the PLO nobody wants them. Nobody mention Kuwaits actions after the 1st gulf war now it might just be an odd angled photo with a utterly smashed hospital behind.

 

[The39thStep]

its a shame noone watches TalkTV, because this is one of the biggest kickings I have ever seen Piers Morgan receive:

To be brutally honest it's not just Piers Morgan who gets a kicking , but all those who have a similar approach to this tragedy

 

[Kid_Eternity]

To be brutally honest it's not just Piers Morgan who gets a kicking , but all those who have a similar approach to this tragedy

I loved the way PM had to listen to being told he was a good man. You could see he knew it was a pisstake but couldn’t argue with it!

 

[Sue]

To be brutally honest it's not just Piers Morgan who gets a kicking , but all those who have a similar approach to this tragedy

I dont think I've ever seen Morgan interview anyone before. He's really not very good at it, going by that.

 

[The39thStep]

I dont think I've ever seen Morgan interview anyone before. He's really not very good at it, going by that.

Flat track bully imo

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Flat track bully imo

 

[platinumsage]

Not to sound harsh, but the argument over who bombed the hospital is a case of "who wins the spectacle." It wouldn't surprise me if either case of "Hamas/Palestine supporters looking for a propaganda win" or "Israel trying to hide its culpability" were true, but this won't be the first or last case of either side doing so.

Israel's bombing and starving of civilian areas is a war crime (or rather, many war crimes) killing thousands in or out of the hospital building. That's the core reality.

Jet fuel can't melt steel beams so who knows what actually happened.

 

[MickiQ]

My own theory for what it is worth is that the IAF were aiming for the launch site at the cemetery and got the hospital instead. It doesn't matter really, those that blame Israel will continue to blame Israel, those that are blaming Hamas will blame Hamas.
Lines have been drawn in the sand (plenty of that on this thread) and the fighting will continue. Hamas won't stop launching rockets, Israel won't stop dropping bombs.
TBF to Abbas, Abdullah and El-Sisi there isn't really much point in meeting Biden other than photo-ops. At this stage he will listen to them and tell them he understands their concerns and promise to pass them on to Netanyahu. He will probably even do so but at this stage he is not going to tell him to stop.
A ceasefire at this point is effectively a victory for Hamas, they will have given the invincible Israeli's a massive kick in the balls and lived to tell the tale.

 

[strung out]

God it's like reading a 911 conspiracy theorist.

Who is that aimed at? If the guy casting doubt on the Israeli airstrike theory in mine and @Kid_Eternity’s message, then he’s a well respected analyst of situations like this in war zones and a longstanding critic of Israel in their campaign against the Palestinian people.

 

[The39thStep]

My own theory for what it is worth is that the IAF were aiming for the launch site at the cemetery and got the hospital instead. It doesn't matter really, those that blame Israel will continue to blame Israel, those that are blaming Hamas will blame Hamas.
Lines have been drawn in the sand (plenty of that on this thread) and the fighting will continue. Hamas won't stop launching rockets, Israel won't stop dropping bombs.
TBF to Abbas, Abdullah and El-Sisi there isn't really much point in meeting Biden other than photo-ops. At this stage he will listen to them and tell them he understands their concerns and promise to pass them on to Netanyahu. He will probably even do so but at this stage he is not going to tell him to stop.
A ceasefire at this point is effectively a victory for Hamas, they will have given the invincible Israeli's a massive kick in the balls and lived to tell the tale.

You in favour of a ceasefire or do you think it sends the wrong message out regarding Hamas?

 

[Knotted]

Who is that aimed at? If the guy casting doubt on the Israeli airstrike theory in mine and @Kid_Eternity’s message, then he’s a well respected analyst of situations like this in war zones and a longstanding critic of Israel in their campaign against the Palestinian people.

I'm not getting bogged down in this speculation. If you want to go down a denialist route then you do you and I find that understandable tbh. I don't think anybody here (myself included) has a well tuned moral compass for dealing with the overall situation.

 

[MickiQ]

You in favour of a ceasefire or do you think it sends the wrong message out regarding Hamas?

I'm all in favour of the fighting and random killing to stop and everyone sitting round a table and having a few beers whilst they try and settle it peacefully but alas it isn't up to me is it?
If either side announced a ceasefire the other would just carry on, there is no advantage to Israel or Hamas of a ceasefire at the moment other than getting aid in and the injured out and neither of the sides fighting care too much about that.
Even if Biden did put pressure on Israel to pause the bombing, Hamas would see this as an opportunity to lob as many rockets as possible with impunity so the bombing will promptly start up again.