Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Kid_Eternity]

…

 

[two sheds]

its a shame noone watches TalkTV, because this is one of the biggest kickings I have ever seen Piers Morgan receive:

That man is something else

 

[strung out]

On here, you have been an apologist for war crimes.

Says the person who claimed that people executing Israeli babies and children in their homes were not fanatical cunts, just people in despair.

It’s pretty clear that the Israeli government’s behaviour both before and after the Hamas attacks has been fucking awful, verging on evil, but there’s been plenty of evil to go around everyone over the last couple of weeks.

 

[Kid_Eternity]

Says the person who claimed that people executing Israeli babies and children in their homes were not fanatical cunts, just people in despair.

It’s pretty clear that the Israeli government’s behaviour both before and after the Hamas attacks has been fucking awful, verging on evil, but there’s been plenty of evil to go around everyone over the last couple of weeks.

Well said.

 

[PTK]

its a shame noone watches TalkTV, because this is one of the biggest kickings I have ever seen Piers Morgan receive:

Thanks. This is very good.

 

[littlebabyjesus]

Says the person who claimed that people executing Israeli babies and children in their homes were not fanatical cunts, just people in despair.

Nope. Shit misrepresentation. I was talking specifically about the Palestinians who cheered when that happened.

You should retract that.

 

[N_igma]

I know fuck all about missiles but is there any way of finding out what type of missile it was by going through the debris? Or would it just be obliterated to pieces?

 

[Ax^]

Says the person who claimed that people executing Israeli babies and children in their homes were not fanatical cunts, just people in despair.

It’s pretty clear that the Israeli government’s behaviour both before and after the Hamas attacks has been fucking awful, verging on evil, but there’s been plenty of evil to go around everyone over the last couple of decades .

CFY


IDF atm "look lads we bomb hospitals in the past multiple times but this one is not on us"

like us forces in Afghanistan

thankfully no have signed up to international court so no one will be charged

 

[Larry O'Hara]

The WaPo who are not famous for supporting Palestinians has verified and shared the video I posted above.

Put sound on.



Clearly it is a missile, under propulsion and traveling at high velocity.

Exactly: and almost as bad are Israeli lies trying to blame Hamas. Which have been parroted on this thread and will be all over MSM coverage. None of this is to justify Hamas actions earlier but a war crime is a war crime and Biden will soon arrive to shake the hands of war criminals and grant them more money. And make no mistake: Biden and Blinken arent there to bring ‘peace’ but ensure nobody helps Palestinians (as usual).

 

[Larry O'Hara]

I know fuck all about missiles but is there any way of finding out what type of missile it was by going through the debris? Or would it just be obliterated to pieces?

From the WaPo footage the answer is clear: an IDF type…..

 

[Larry O'Hara]

BBC Headline ‘Hundreds Feared Dead as IDF Denies Strike’—what a disgraceful biased headline, giving prominence to their lying denial. Typical I know but still despicable. And we have to pay for these BBC bastards.

 

[Raheem]

 

[spring-peeper]

From here - World reacts as Gaza officials say 500 killed in Israeli strike on hospital

These world leaders condemn the attack on the hospital.

Palestine
Jordan
Egypt
Qatar
WHO
The Arab League
Turkey
Canada
Iran


Canada looks out of place wrt those outraged. Are we the only western nation who has issues the the bombing of a hospital?

 

[Rimbaud]

Why what? Why don't I believe the IDF is deliberately trying to kill civilians. Why would they? What would it gain them or Israel? They don't care that they're killing them but that's not the same as setting out do so.
Killing civilians is clearly eating into the wave of sympathy that they were riding a week ago so why would they deliberately aim to reduce it further.

1 - Revenge and hatred. They are humans.
2 - Terror to force Palestinians out of North Gaza as prelude to annexation. Bombing the hospital sends a clear message that nowhere is safe and that there is no place to shelter.

Israel is conducting a campaign of ethnic cleansing in case you hadn't noticed. Mass killings is part of the territory. And they can just blame it on Hamas using human shields as they always do and a lot of idiots will believe them as they always have so they reckon they can manage the fallout. They may be wrong though.

 

[likesfish]

It could be a cock up one number wrong with a JDAM and you hit the wrong Target it could be a planned attack to spread terror using hamas as an excuse, Hamas might have been trying to operate from the hospital and signals intelligence traced signals from the hospital and nobody cared that it was a hospital.
Could just be a pyschotic pilot who decided to kill as many Arabs as possible . Much like the pair of cunts on bloody Sunday who did most of the killing safe in the knowledge he will get away with it.
could be an intercepted rocket 400kg of explosive would wreck a hospital

 

[platinumsage]

It doesn’t really matter now, everyone around the world has made up their minds already, as they did the moment Hamas announced 500 deaths.

 

[kebabking]

I know fuck all about missiles but is there any way of finding out what type of missile it was by going through the debris? Or would it just be obliterated to pieces?

Yeah, the technical stuff is fairly easy - there'll be bits of whatever it was left (so if it was a JDAM equipped aircraft bomb the fins are usually intact after detonation - and everything has serial numbers), if it was a Hamas rocket there'll be stuff like bots of rocket body, and probably the engine in (relatively) on piece, and if you want to go hyper-sleuth you could do a forensic examination of the explosive residue to see what mix it was, and that will tell you who made the explosive.

The big problem isn't going to be determining the munition, it's going to be getting an investigation team in that has wide public confidence - unfortunately both Hamas and the Israelis have form for fiddling with the scenes of problematic incidents.

There'll plenty of Israeli bomb fragments in Gaza that could be liberally scattered about the hospital site - and Hamas control the site, and it would probably be somewhat unwise for a Gazan at the site to go on camera and say 'yeah, we saw these Hamas characters turn up in a pickup and throw bits of JDAM all over the place, while another gang took away a rocket engine...'

It could be either Israel or Hamas, and both have a great deal to lose by being found as the culprit. One big complication is that the media have decided for themselves who did it, and we all know how good the media are at admitting that a) they were wrong, and b) that they jumped in with both feet because a story fitted in with their preconceived idea.

 

[Yossarian]

I don't think it's exactly beyond the realms of possibility that some Islamic Jihad tosser misfired a missile and hit a hospital - it's maybe a more likely scenario than the Israelis deliberately bombing a hospital just as the American president is about to board Air Force One on a visit to remind them to try to not kill too many civilians, if possible.

But I think if you were trying to at least impersonate a civilised country, you would call a ceasefire and allow aid teams to get through to retrieve the dead, dying, and injured civilians from the rubble of the bombed hospital that was packed with victims from your previous rounds of bombings, this is another war crime whether the explosion was caused by the IDF or not.

 

[platinumsage]

Alleged daytime photo of the impact site:

 

[kebabking]

Alleged daytime photo of the impact site:

I'd wait for more all round imagery - so whats the scene behind the point from where the picture is taken..?

Interesting that if Quds is saying 'this is where loads of people where killed in an airstrike', there's no crater...

 

[platinumsage]

I'd wait for more all round imagery - so whats the scene behind the point from where the picture is taken..?

Interesting that if Quds is saying 'this is where loads of people where killed in an airstrike', there's no crater...

There's IDF aerial photography too, which has the same distribution of vehicles:



Video footage from the site. The hospital buildings seem relatively undamaged.

 

[Gramsci]

Watching Al Jazeera and this has united the Arab countries.

The head of the PA has gone back to Palestine.

There was a news conference where the Arab group of countries are agreeing that Israel is trying too ethnically cleanse Palestine. That the UN security council should call an immediate ceasefire with humanitarian aid going in. That they were only interested in meeting Biden if he came to talk about how to implement a ceasefire.

The Arab street are incensed. The Arab countries are not that democratic but on this the leaders have to listen to the people. This is not only about high diplomacy. Palestine is an issue that unites all kinds of ordinary people in the Middle East.

The Al Jazeera commentators are saying the normalisation process in now dead.

The Arab countries were saying that the double standard of the West needs to end.

There are also calls for Hamas and PLO to a make united front against Israel.

 

[phildwyer]

I've never heard of Bassam Youssef before, but he made a complete fool of Piers Morgan yesterday:

 

[pbsmooth]

And make no mistake: Biden and Blinken arent there to bring ‘peace’ but ensure nobody helps Palestinians (as usual).

International aid to Palestinians - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[ska invita]

View attachment 395943

The most accurate front page in Britain today .. Lots of mealy-mouthed 'deaths' in anonymous 'hospital blast' talk

 

[Yossarian]

Alleged daytime photo of the impact site:

If that's the extent of the damage, the initial estimate of 500 deaths sounds a little high

 

[Rob Ray]

Why don't I believe the IDF is deliberately trying to kill civilians. Why would they? What would it gain them

Jewish friends of mine with Israeli family told me the day after Hamas attacked that Israel would be looking to kill many Palestinians for every Jew killed. It gains them a sense of proportionate, public revenge and the idea that they have made it clear any attack on Israel will be repaid in blood many times over. There's an argument in there about deterrence, but that's the root.

 

[cupid_stunt]

This report from 2016 and covering events in 2014, is a reminder of Israel's record when it comes to bombing hospitals, and indeed schools.

Two years ago, my hospital was destroyed. It was the only dedicated rehabilitation hospital in Gaza, a modern centre of care with 80 beds, a therapeutic garden and state-of-the-art equipment. Our patients are among Gaza’s most vulnerable residents; many are paralysed, some need round-the-clock care.

In summer 2014, Gaza endured 51 days of attacks by Israel in which no place was safe, not even schools or hospitals. Soon after the attacks began, El Wafa, situated near the Shujaiyya neighbourhood in eastern Gaza, came under fire from Israeli shells and missiles. On July 17, the hospital was struck, leading to a power cut and fires on several floors. We evacuated the patients under constant shelling and in the dark.

After several more days of strikes, on July 23, the hospital was completely destroyed in an Israeli air raid.

In the attack, we not only lost a critical lifeline for our patients, but also an investment of 30 years.

About $15 million (Dh55.1m) worth of equipment, gone in seconds.

https://www.map.org.uk/news/archive/post/421-my-gaza-hospital-was-destroyed-why-has-the-world-stayed-silent

 

[strung out]

Interesting to see some of the people who were really quick to denounce the Israeli reports of atrocities against civilians by Hamas (which turned out to be largely true) as lies, be equally quick to jump to the hastiest of conclusions about this tragedy too.

I know shit like this is highly emotive, especially when we get on the scene pictures of burning buildings and casualties getting dragged out, but I think everyone would be better served by waiting a few hours until calmer assessments can be made.

A lot of analysis of the photos seems to suggest that there were unlikely to be anything approaching 500 casualties, and the damage shown seems more consistent with a burning fire caused by rocket fuel accelerant rather than an airstrike.

Good analysis here, if you want to click through to the twitter thread.

 

[platinumsage]

Here's a claimed audio intercept of Hamas discussing it