krtek a houby
Merry Xmas!
It's blatant, for sure.
I'm as outraged as anyone here about the ethnic cleansing and murderous IDF and the Israeli regime. But there's no excuse for commentary like what I quoted.
Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
- Thread starter PR1Berske
- Start date
It's blatant, for sure.
I'm as outraged as anyone here about the ethnic cleansing and murderous IDF and the Israeli regime. But there's no excuse for commentary like what I quoted.
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Well there's no point because you're talking shit and the post wasn't libellous in the slightest.
The fact that I'm worthless in every way is irrelevant.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Which is spot on, and why the blanket claims of antisemitism (made by some posters) devalue the importance of calling out overt racism. Don't really understand why such posts have not led to some sort of forum sanction tbh.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany - Wikipedia
en.wikipedia.org
Antisemitic Jews?
The Israeli philosopher Yeshayahu Leibowitz introduced the term "Judeo-Nazis". He argued that continued military occupation of the Palestinian territories would lead to the moral degradation of Israeli Defense Force (IDF), with individuals committing atrocities for state security interests.[22][23] In 1988, Holocaust survivor Yehuda Elkana warned that the tendency in Israel to see all potential threats as existential and all opponents as Nazis would lead to Nazi-like behavior by Jews
Ffs just because someone's Jewish, that doesn't automatically validate all their views on israel
HeAthen
Nadgers.
Completely agree and it should be called out as you have done. Plenty of stuff that is being falsely labelled as anti-semitic that isn't though and when others do so it devalues posts like yours that highlight actual abhorent posts.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
We could tell that without that link, just by mentioning Netanyahu or gallant for example
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Well I thought I'd give a more extreme example of someone who regularly justifies their shit with 'but I'm a jew so I know, I have permission to say this...'
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think the prime minister of Israel is a more extreme example
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
A more powerful example, sure. I don't think he's got a lot to say about freemasons or holocaust denial or global satanic conspiracy to enslave mankind.
Plus iirc makow has been writing his stuff for longer than bibi has been PM of Israel.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think he's likely a lot to say but the freemasons and satanists in the US government have made it clear that's the thickest of red lines
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
One of the things Mark Seddon and Chris Doyle were saying in post I did last night was that in Western Countries like ours the language used by mainstream politicians is that what is happening in Gaza is a humanitarian disaster.
As though its due to an earthquake. Not due to political decisions and actions. The mainstream politicians aren't saying it how it is.
My MP does this. And then she says she has visited West Bank and is concerned about extremist settlers. Its like politicians like her don't want to actually say what is happening. Despite reams of UN reports etc. She also did not vote for a ceasefire as it was "divisive"
Was watching Ilan Pappe talking recently (not interview I've finished yet). He says he has been going to visit Israel in last year several times.
He says Israel is split in two halves. One half think yes lets use this once in lifetime opportunity to finish what was started in 48. A greater Israel of the whole of the old Mandate area. The other half ( whilst not being that pro Palestinians) want more emphasis on hostages back which requires compromise. Why Gallant sacking brought demos.
In his view this split in Israel pre ceded the Hamas attack. There is the liberal Israelis Vs the right/ religious right. That in long term its why in his view Israel could end up as another failed state in 15 years time. It might tear itself apart.
Haaretz is liberal /left paper. Within Israel itself not all media is translated. So what Haaretz is saying here is what is being said within Israel. Its not that secret.
Why can our politicians not see that?
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mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I don't really understand what this bit means.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
That's ok
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Not really; but if you aren't inclined to explain then you only leave readers to draw their own conclusions. I will say that if you appeared to be posting from some conspiracist rabbit hole, that would be very sad to see.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
It can be overwhelming, for sure, the daily nature of the slaughter. Today, we wake up to a deadly strike on Jabalia refugee camp. It's just another day. The war crimes are notched up at an hourly rate. Official death toll approaches 50,000 but we know the real number is much, much higher than that, as northern Gaza faces famine.
‘Without warning’: Israeli attack kills dozens in Gaza, including children
‘Without warning’: Israeli attack kills dozens in Gaza, including children
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
It would be very sad to see you unable to understand a simple sentence. But there you go. The simple fact is either Biden is bring humiliated by Netanyahu or he's OK with the genocide n is carrying out. Sadly there are no satanists playing people as puppets from behind the scenes. The real world is not that interesting.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
Can you take your whattaboutery elsewhere, please? If you have something to say about another tragedy, start a thread for it.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
The fact that all involved have agency and motives of their own, and there are really neither puppets nor puppetmasters, makes it that interesting.
I don't know what the point was of the freemasons and satanists in the US government have made it clear that's the thickest of red lines but I do know you frequently post just to get the last word. Experience has shown me you'd best be allowed that last word or things may get ltoxic very quickly.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
I think you're confusing me with someone else
_Russ_
Never not Knowingly Misunderstood
You're still full of shit
agricola
a genuine importer of owls
In other news the Western media don't seem interested in, a little more has been released about the leaked documents / blackmail scandal that has been circulating in Israel these past few days:
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
This is a reason why I kept out of the Amsterdam issue.
I've been reading today more of the what Im now thinking is this excellent history of Gaza.
Gaza | Hurst Publishers
Winner of the Middle East Monitor Palestine Book Award and a Guardian Book of the Year The story of the struggle to control Gaza, from the mid-nineteenth century to the present.
www.hurstpublishers.com
Its level headed narrative history
The dehumanisation is quite straightforward. Zionists wanted the land. They saw Gaza as a refugee centre as a problem.
Many of the those in the Gaza strip could see the land they were expelled from by the Zionists.
I've got up to 1967 now. When Israel took control of Gaza strip. Discussions within the prevailing Labour Zionism political elites in 60s was about possibility of voluntary or coerced ( or combination) of population transfer. Whilst keeping some Palestinians as cheap Labour force for the State of Israel.
Basically colonialism is what I'm talking about here.
This being 67 and not 48 ethnic cleansing on a large scale would have got some push back from international community. So more "voluntary" emigration was encouraged. With some limited success.
In 67 the Zionists also came up against unexpected organised resistance in Gaza to their colonising hopes.
So perhaps instead of dehumanisation it is better to view Zionism and the State of Israel as a settler colonial project. With the indigenous people seen as a problem. To be dealt with in different ways. As is the case with other settler colonial projects.
In a settler colonial project its entirely consistent to see indigenous people as a problem.
I would also say the difference between Labour Zionism and the Revisionist Zionism that has gained precedence now ( Likud) is a matter of pragmatism.
Both were colonising projects. Labour Zionism was more pragmatic.
I think its worth sticking to the history rather than get caught up in events like Amsterdam. Where one can argue based on limited info.
Going and properly reading history of Palestine and Zionists don't come well out of it. Even in book like this.
Palestinians made many mistakes. But in end it was them being colonised and removed from their land or if staying treated as second class.
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Gramsci
Well-Known Member
Just to add about the history of Gaza book:
One of the fascinating details is that the Muslim Brotherhood members( later to be Hamas) were active military fighters in 48 and onwards to early 1950s
Then they changed tack and decided to drop military struggle and go for the long game of religious reformation and good works within the Gaza community.
They had suffered repression under Nasser. Which was part of reason to change tack. This gave them strong dislike of secular Arab nationalism. As some had been imprisoned.
Nasser at different times. clamped down on Palestinians in Gaza being involved in the so called border wars with Israel. Though he wasn't always consistent in this. Israel is the belligerent party in this.
Appears some of the old Muslim Brotherhood went on to found Hamas. So they have long history in Gaza. Explains there rise once they founded Hamas. They did not suddenly come out of no where.
Also makes clear they were not wedded to violence.
Gaza | Hurst Publishers
Winner of the Middle East Monitor Palestine Book Award and a Guardian Book of the Year The story of the struggle to control Gaza, from the mid-nineteenth century to the present.
www.hurstpublishers.com
One of the fascinating details is that the Muslim Brotherhood members( later to be Hamas) were active military fighters in 48 and onwards to early 1950s
Then they changed tack and decided to drop military struggle and go for the long game of religious reformation and good works within the Gaza community.
They had suffered repression under Nasser. Which was part of reason to change tack. This gave them strong dislike of secular Arab nationalism. As some had been imprisoned.
Nasser at different times. clamped down on Palestinians in Gaza being involved in the so called border wars with Israel. Though he wasn't always consistent in this. Israel is the belligerent party in this.
Appears some of the old Muslim Brotherhood went on to found Hamas. So they have long history in Gaza. Explains there rise once they founded Hamas. They did not suddenly come out of no where.
Also makes clear they were not wedded to violence.
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little_legs
Поехали!
Some extracts from the UN OHCHR report about the first 6 months of genocide (November 2023 to April 2024):
Starvation became a reality for Palestinians in early January 2024, especially in the north, with the most vulnerable, including infants and older persons, reportedly dying first.
(...)
By the end of the reporting period, over 1.7 million people (75 per cent of the population of Gaza) were displaced to cramped, overcrowded shelters without access to basic necessities
(...)
Doctors at Kamal Adwan Hospital in northern Gaza reported in late March that 15 infants arrived daily suffering from acute malnutrition and advanced severe dehydration
Killing of civilians
Eighty-eight per cent of the verified fatalities (ed: In residential buildings) were killed in incidents that killed five or more people
(...)
This further shows that the main victims of strikes on residential buildings were children, with the three categories of age mostly represented in the verified fatalities sequentially being the ones from 5 to 9 years old, from 10 to 14 years old and from 0 to 4 years old, for both boys
and girls
(...)
As of 25 April 2024, the IDF had announced the names of only 75 targeted Palestinians killed, out of over 34,000 reported fatalities
(...)
As of 31 August 2024, OHCHR had verified
200 families that had lost between 5 and 9 members,
172 families that had lost between 10 and 19 members,
69 families that had lost between 20 and 29 family members,
and 43 families that had lost more than 30 members.
The actual figures may likely be considerably higher.
The two families with the highest verified number of fatalities were the Al Najjar family, with 138 members killed (in 18 incidents), including 35 women and 62 children, and the Al Astal family with 94 members killed (in 8 incidents), including 33 women and 45 children.
Starvation became a reality for Palestinians in early January 2024, especially in the north, with the most vulnerable, including infants and older persons, reportedly dying first.
(...)
By the end of the reporting period, over 1.7 million people (75 per cent of the population of Gaza) were displaced to cramped, overcrowded shelters without access to basic necessities
(...)
Doctors at Kamal Adwan Hospital in northern Gaza reported in late March that 15 infants arrived daily suffering from acute malnutrition and advanced severe dehydration
Killing of civilians
Eighty-eight per cent of the verified fatalities (ed: In residential buildings) were killed in incidents that killed five or more people
(...)
This further shows that the main victims of strikes on residential buildings were children, with the three categories of age mostly represented in the verified fatalities sequentially being the ones from 5 to 9 years old, from 10 to 14 years old and from 0 to 4 years old, for both boys
and girls
(...)
As of 25 April 2024, the IDF had announced the names of only 75 targeted Palestinians killed, out of over 34,000 reported fatalities
(...)
As of 31 August 2024, OHCHR had verified
200 families that had lost between 5 and 9 members,
172 families that had lost between 10 and 19 members,
69 families that had lost between 20 and 29 family members,
and 43 families that had lost more than 30 members.
The actual figures may likely be considerably higher.
The two families with the highest verified number of fatalities were the Al Najjar family, with 138 members killed (in 18 incidents), including 35 women and 62 children, and the Al Astal family with 94 members killed (in 8 incidents), including 33 women and 45 children.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Nobody is doing this.
It's becoming hard not to see the constant downplaying of antisemitism by poster after poster as an attempt to delegitimise voices that counter the narrative of israel as the most evil country that's ever existed; indescribably worse than other, older settler colonial states, engaged in a genocide uniquely bad and worse than all other genocides ever; a nation so vile that some here won't even use its name. Are there any other countries that get called an "entity"? No, there are none.
But it's not antisemitism!
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