Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[Mr.Bishie]

Spoke to Medyan on Friday, he was able to make contact with the only photojournalist he has still working in Gaza.

Can’t be that many at all now.

 

[Gramsci]

Page 9 and 10 of the UN report on Human rights in OPT has this to say on figures for deaths.

It saying that the way IDF has conducted the war has lead to whole families being killed. Leading to a wide range of ages/ men and women being killed.

In a war fought under International humanitarian law the more usual demographic would be younger men.

This shows over time an IDF/ Israel government disregard for deaths of non combatants. Which is evidence they are not following IHL

16. Compared with the distributions of OHCHR-verified fatalities in previous escalations of
hostilities, the strikes on residential buildings in Gaza since 7 October suggest a pattern of
attacks inflicting casualties evenly as a proportion across the entire population, with high
numbers of babies and young children, women, older persons, and families killed together in
residential buildings, raising further concerns that the IDF has failed to strictly comply with
fundamental principles of IHL.23 The continuation of these attacks killing very evenly across the
population for months, despite early evidence of the massive civilian harm suffered as a result,
demonstrates an apparent indifference to the death of civilians and the impact of the means
nd methods of warfare selected. Where verified deaths mirror the demographic makeup of a
population at large, rather than reflecting the known demographic of combatants, this raises
concerns regarding compliance with the principle of distinction and reflect an apparent failure
to take all feasible precautions to avoid, and in any event to minimize, incidental loss of civilian
life, injury to civilians and damage to civilian objects. The deaths may also reflect a pattern of
attacks conducted with disregard for the demonstrated and known extensive incidental loss of
civilian life, raising concerns that individual strikes continued to be ordered even where there
was knowledge that civilian harm was likely excessive in relation to the concrete and direct
military advantage.

 

[Gramsci]

The UN report puts this is on the longer context. The occupation of Gaza and West Bank since 67. The years of an Israel blockade and the fragmentation, as it calls it, of Palestinian communities in the West Bank. Curiously it does not mention settlement building.

Report implies that this context needs to be dealt with to end the current crisis.

5. It is also important to note the longstanding human rights impacts of 57 years of Israeli
occupation of Palestinian territory in Gaza10 and the West Bank, including East Jerusalem, and
a strangulating 17-year blockade and closure of Gaza. The human rights impacts of this
structural reality have been extensively documented over the decades by OHCHR, United
Nations’ commissions of inquiries and other reporting mechanisms, civil society organizations,
and a range of other actors. Israel’s recent actions within the OPT have reflected, in important
ways, long-standing patterns of discrimination, oppression and violence against the Palestinian
people, which have occurred alongside Israel’s systematic fragmentation of Palestinian
communities from each other, and segregation from Jewish Israeli communities. As the
International Court of Justice ruled in its Advisory Opinion in July, the continued presence of
Israel in the entirety of the Palestinian territory occupied by Israel in 1967 is illegal, and Israel
must bring an end to this illegal presence as rapidly as possible.11

6. A recognition of long-standing trends and patterns of violations by Israel in the OPT, and
of applicable international law as clarified by the International Court of Justice, must inform the
steps to be taken to end the current crisis and the actions needed from Member States,
including the primary duty bearer Israel, to change the current course of events.

 

[_Russ_]

It's worth thinking of using the ignore function on urban.

I do.

This place has a really effective Ignore Function I use it liberally...and call it the twatinator

 

[brogdale]

This place has a really effective Ignore Function I use it liberally...and call it the twatinator

That's actually quite funny, Russ

 

[maomao]

It's actually a terrible ignore function. If you want to look at one post that's been quoted to make sense of an argument it uncovers every blocked post on the page. It also puts threads an ignored poster has posted on to the top of New Posts and gives far too many clues that an ignored post is there.

 

[ID47]

Like the moderators continue to ignore this.




I suppose we should be grateful that ID47 either edited out their comments about Judeonazis, or had them edited out.

What the fuck is your problem, get off my fucking back you apologist cunt.

 

[Gramsci]

It's actually a terrible ignore function. If you want to look at one post that's been quoted to make sense of an argument it uncovers every blocked post on the page. It also puts threads an ignored poster has posted on to the top of New Posts and gives far too many clues that an ignored post is there.

I mostly agree

Just had to do this as post directed at me was being quoted by others.

However the distancing of ignored posts even when I un ignore them helps me refrain from rising to the bait.

Also can reply if I want to but in more measured way

So it does help imo

Why I advise using it. I never used to.

To add. Way I use ignore function is to make a distance. I also un ignore when needed and every now and then. Then go back on it.

So it's not in way I use it permanent ignore. It's selective.

That's one way to use it. One can use it creatively is what I mean

 

[Gramsci]

Watched this from Palestine Deep Dive

Mark Seddon with the head of the Council for Arab British Understanding Chris Doyle



Made few weeks ago. Before Trump was elected.

Level headed look at what's happening now. Chris Doyle has been out in middle east few times recently

Few points he made

So called International law is coming into disrepute with non western people and their governments in way western governments have supported Israel. There are no red lines when it comes to Israel.

Whether Harris or Trump get elected its not clear if anything would be better for Palestinians.

Netanyahu has played US well. Got to do what he wants.

On UK sanctioning extremist like Smotrich Chris Doyle points out that whole of present Israel government cabinet have been supporting this. So why are not this government in UK thinking about sanctioning all those politicians in the present leadership? Its not just extremist settlers doing this.

On the lack of arrest warrants for Netanyahu and Gallant. Chris Doyle says previously the argument was that doing this would scupper any ceasefire talks. That is not the case now. As there are not going to be any peace talks.

On regional war. His view is that its already happening. That Netanyahu has already got US involved. ( Missile US soldiers in Israel) Its a matter of how far this goes. Plus this is distraction to what Israel is doing in Gaza


So there you have it. Fairly mainstream analysts giving damning verdict on what Israel is doing.

All one has to do imo is read the history and listen to reputable analysts to be able to criticise what Israel as a state is doing

Plus reading the UN reports which I've posted up about. Which are analysis of recent history.

The Rapporteur Francesca Albanese for example. She is more upfront about the Zionist historical context. The ideology behind it. Even if she does not mention that explicitly. Read her recent report and posted up about it.

 

[oryx]

I am really fucking incensed that about a third of this thread is throwing around shady, snidey, mainly unfounded accusations of antisemitism while in Gaza, thousands of innocent women and children are being murdered.

Nearly 70% of Gaza war dead women and children - UN

A UN agency verified victims from a six-month period and said it found international law violations.

www.bbc.co.uk

Do some of you lot either have no sense of proportion, or no sense of shame? Or no sense of what is right?

I thought Urban was better then this.

 

[ID47]

I am really fucking incensed that about a third of this thread is throwing around shady, snidey, mainly unfounded accusations of antisemitism while in Gaza, thousands of innocent women and children are being murdered.

Nearly 70% of Gaza war dead women and children - UN

A UN agency verified victims from a six-month period and said it found international law violations.

www.bbc.co.uk

Do some of you lot either have no sense of proportion, or no sense of shame? Or no sense of what is right?

I thought Urban was better then this.

100% agree, it's appalling. 17500 kids murdered, let that fucking sink in. And that's just the kids.

 

[Spymaster]

100% agree, it's appalling.

Tough shit, I’m afraid. There’s more than one tragedy going on in the region at the moment and the fact that some are using these disgusting events as an excuse to expound blatant racism is perfectly worthy of comment.

 

[brogdale]

Tough shit, I’m afraid. There’s more than one tragedy going on in the region at the moment and the fact that some are using these disgusting events as an excuse to expound blatant racism is perfectly worthy of comment.

There’s real irony in that; when posters comment on the racist crimes against humanity being perpetrated by the Israeli state you call that racist. You appear to have lost perspective on this issue and probably should heed your own suggestion to place the thread on ignore.

 

[Spymaster]

There’s real irony in that; when posters comment on the racist crimes against humanity being perpetrated by the Israeli state you call that racist.

Utter bollocks.

That’s not what’s racist/antisemitic at all. The Israeli state absolutely should be criticised for what they’re doing.

That’s not what we’re talking about here though, is it? You know that.

 

[brogdale]

Utter bollocks.

That’s not what’s racist/antisemitic at all. The Israeli state absolutely should be criticised for what they’re doing.

That’s not what we’re talking about here though, is it? You know that.

Thread title and content suggests otherwise; really think your desire to see racism behind people’s horror at the racist, genocidal crimes against humanity being committed by the Israeli state is clouding your judgement and perspective here.

 

[CNT36]

Like the moderators continue to ignore this.

Are you reporting posts? Don't assume they've seen it just because they sometines post on a thread. It doesnt mean that they have read it all.

 

[_Russ_]

Tough shit, I’m afraid. There’s more than one tragedy going on in the region at the moment and the fact that some are using these disgusting events as an excuse to expound blatant racism is perfectly worthy of comment.

You're full of shit

 

[Spymaster]

You're full of shit

And you are the worst antisemitic scum on these boards.

 

[ID47]

And you are the worst antisemitic scum on these boards.

That's libelous.

 

[Duncan2]

Thought Al Jazeera's documentary, predating October 7th , " Israelism" was worth a watch.It covers the extent to which the US is inseparable from the Zionist project whilst also giving some grounds for optimism.Perhaps less relevant than it would have been had Trump not swept the board in recent election.

 

[tim]

Are you reporting posts? Don't assume they've seen it just because they sometines post on a thread. It doesnt mean that they have read it all.

I always report them. Sometimes, but not always, this results in them being edited.

 

[tim]

That's libelous.

Which poster would you say is more antisemitic and, indeed, misogynistic than _Russ_ ?

 

[Spymaster]

That's libelous.

Sue me.

 

[krtek a houby]

Which poster would you say is more antisemitic and, indeed, misogynistic than _Russ_ ?

This one is pretty disgusting

Jewish wife and relatives! So wonder what that cunt of a prime minister's excuse is.

The Holocausts is Israel's get out of jail card' they use it to justify just about any anything. I'm so sick of hearing about it that I have Holocaust fatigue. BTW 27 million Russians died in WW2 but I never hear them moaning about it.

Not surprising as both Labour and Conservative parties are funded by Jews.

It's the final solution!

Pity they didn't euthanize the man, but seriously what can you expect from a country that allow the skinning of conscious dogs and cats.

And she's still taking the ugly pills.

 

[Pickman's model]

Sue me.

Yeh I doubt the case will reach the courts

 

[HeAthen]

This one is pretty disgusting

Now, those are actual examples of anti-semitism and absolutely should be called out.

 

[ID47]

Sue me.

You are worthless in every way there is no point.

 

[mojo pixy]

I am really fucking incensed that about a third of this thread is throwing around shady, snidey, mainly unfounded accusations of antisemitism while in Gaza, thousands of innocent women and children are being murdered.

What's happening in Gaza doesn't excuse or even necessitate antisemitism. It's possible to condemn both. Indeed on a forum where the vast majority of posters IME consider themselves basically anti-racist, I'd say it's vital to condemn both.

 

[ID47]

Comparisons between Israel and Nazi Germany - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Antisemitic Jews?

The Israeli philosopher Yeshayahu Leibowitz introduced the term "Judeo-Nazis". He argued that continued military occupation of the Palestinian territories would lead to the moral degradation of Israeli Defense Force (IDF), with individuals committing atrocities for state security interests.[22][23] In 1988, Holocaust survivor Yehuda Elkana warned that the tendency in Israel to see all potential threats as existential and all opponents as Nazis would lead to Nazi-like behavior by Jews

 

[Gramsci]

I am really fucking incensed that about a third of this thread is throwing around shady, snidey, mainly unfounded accusations of antisemitism while in Gaza, thousands of innocent women and children are being murdered.

Nearly 70% of Gaza war dead women and children - UN

A UN agency verified victims from a six-month period and said it found international law violations.

www.bbc.co.uk

Do some of you lot either have no sense of proportion, or no sense of shame? Or no sense of what is right?

I thought Urban was better then this.

Last night I went and found the UN report that this BBC news article is based on.

I posted it up and have done several posts with excerpts from it.

These posts have appeared to have got little interest.

As they get lost.

As I've read quite a bit over last months I was thinking of starting separate thread of reviews of books/ articles / programmes about the historical context and up to date info. I could re use a lot of my posts here. Would take some work. An information thread

As agree with your post. This thread has been derailed.