Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion
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brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
It just seems quite astonishing that a state undertaking war crimes and crimes against humanity should expect that its citizens would be able to travel without consequence.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Follow all the links you want, I'm not in charge of your eyes or your opinions. I posted a news report, as we do, explicitly as another perspective. You're saying there are racists on X; I'm 100% unsurprised. There are racist football thugs; again wow who knew?
The first link to this story was posted by someone whose antisemitism has been on show here for a long time; I thought it was important to counter that with another perspective.
The pushback against that is, once again, interesting but completely fucking predictable.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Aww I bet you say that to all the Russians, Chinese, Burmese etc
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
tbh, we can, as can the yanks, despite the crimes that our state has committed.
Looks to me like a bunch of far-right Israeli hoolies kicked off, took a kicking, behaved like shites at the match (booing the minutes fucking silence was always gonna lead to more kicking off) and then the reaction got way out of hand and many more, non-violent Maccabites, were attacked as well. When people are being kicked and called 'fucking jews' then it is impossible to deny the anti-semitism and that should be pointed out alongside the behaviour of their ultras.
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
They're not undertaking war crimes or crimes against humanity. They are fighting terrorism and they are serving at the front line on behalf of civilisation and democracy the world over. There are millions of terrorists. They're doing their best to kill them all.
maomao
普費斯
Well the yanks and the British always have. I was living abroad last time the UK entered an illegal war and very few people blamed me for it. But if I went round a city that is at least 1/8 muslim ripping down Palestinian flags and singing anti-arab songs, I'd expect a hiding.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Haven't followed the links, but other social media shows a great deal of establishment/rw support for football hooligans; not something you expect to see every day of the week! The difference here, of course, is that the racist hooligans concerned are Israeli.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
And Dutch.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Yes, but the prevailing view from politicians like the Shad. HS is that the Dutch hooligans possibly have "no right to be in Europe" and deserve to be deported:
Quite a contrast.
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Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
'Israeli citizens should expect to be attacked because of the actions of their government'.
Do you extend your racism to Chinese citizens?
Surely they should expect a kicking for the Chinese persecution of Uighurs?
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
Nice quote; who's that from?
The actual comment that I made related to the attitude of the state committing the war crimes and crimes against humanity. Any rogue state breaching international law must be cognisant of the impact those actions may have on its citizens abroad. Mrs B is old enough to remember travelling in Europe as Operation Banner commenced and the British State deployed troops into Northern Ireland and the very frosty/outright negative reaction that the GB sticker on the car created.
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
That's very kind of you, thanks for the permission.
And a bunch of racist fucks supporting Israel and genocide. Who knew?
Gramsci
Well-Known Member
I'm in mixed minds about imperial powers/ powerful countries supporting Israel for geo political reasons.
Even back in days of British Empire not all those in the Empire thought supporting Zionism was in best interests of the Empire.
Another middle eastern historian was listening to recently pointed out that at end of WW1 British empire were in control of Palestine with Ottoman defeat.
There was no reason to support a settler colonial project when British were already there. They could have got local elites on side. Supporting a European settler colonial movement put an intermediate power between the Empire and it's direct geo political interests.
And has been seen settler colonial society of Israel has it's own interests. As British found when they ran mandate. They slowly realised they had set up situation which became unmanageable.
More recent view I've heard now is that support for Israel was more about religious and cultural reasons than the hard headed geo political ones
Even back in days of British Empire.
belboid
Exasperated, not angry.
the British empire in 1948? Hmm, what else was going on with that at the same time? Ohh yeah, it was collapsing as various nations claimed their independence. The empire was over. No way could the mandate simply be continued, no chance at all. Of course Israel had its own interests, but the brits thought they would dovetails neatly/sufficiently with British interests for that to be okay.
Pickman's model
Starry Wisdom
the empire was over in 1948? news for the malayans, not to mention the maltese and the various african and pacific possessions
Spymaster
Plastic Paddy
Single quotes as I was paraphrasing what we all know you meant.
Come on Broggers, admit it. You’re a smelly old lefty bigot, just like Boris and a bunch of others on this thread. You’ve just convinced yourselves that it’s ok because it’s Israelis you hate instead of black or brown people.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I have heard they exist. Apparently there's a war on or something idk. Maybe Israel's never been attacked by anyone ever so it's impossible to understand why they might exist.
Oh shit I'm doing that context thing again, oopsy.
brogdale
Coming to terms with late onset Anarchism
the heuristic "we" again
little_legs
Поехали!
Posting Abu Ghraib style images because you lost 5-0
planetgeli
There's no future in England's dreaming
Well you're certainly doing that hyperbolic sarcasm thing again to someone who respectfully read the article and the many explainer links within it. Links that don't lead to the exact kind of "alternative perspective" that you hoped for, because you, by your own admission, didn't read and explore your own article in full.
Next time I'll just leave LBJ to trash your source. You don't seem interested in any actual discussion of that source or its contents.
little_legs
Поехали!
littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
I just looked this up and there are tickets available to buy online. So they haven't closed the doors yet. Only tickets for registered home fans, though.
Plumdaff
joy in people
You are determined to see bad faith.
Links are criticised for all sorts of reasons. I gave a non exhaustive number of examples.
Eta. tbc I of course don't support anyone getting attacked because of their religion, national origin etc. But if there's a bunch of far right racist genocidal hoolie scum attempting to terrorise a neighbourhood and they end up having their arses handed to them I'm shedding no tears. And European politicians rushing to such one sided and racist statements and conclusions is a disgrace but no shock.
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littlebabyjesus
one of Maxwell's demons
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
I don't mind discussing the article, or the Forward as its source. I'd suggest reading a few more of their articles on stuff to get a feel for their voice but not everyone will want to.
I don't use X as I said so can't speak to that sewer or its contents. I'm happy to accept its basically full of awfulness though, that's certainly my expectation.
I'm not sure what specifically it is you want a non-sarcastic chat about after your bit about having your eyes opened by X. You kind of set the tone for us both with that, really.
mojo pixy
...שלא נמצא בשמאל
Right. Any source that's not explicitly pro-palestinian and anti-israeli is dodgy. That's quite an angle you've got there.
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