Hamas/Israel conflict: news and discussion

[teqniq]

Now that Israel have turned their attention to the hospitals of Beirut Western journalists are on the scene.Lindsey Hilsum was with distraught parents in the rubble of an apartment building on C4 news.I guess there is a chance that it will become much harder for politicians locally to downplay this ongoing slaughter of innocents.

Speaking of which:

 

[Gramsci]

Poraic I Briens report from the encampment of settlers waiting with their children to move into the Gaza Strip was quite something

Finally got around to look at that.

These settlers might not represent majority of Israeli opinion.

However they are not fringe group either. Programme showed three government ministers turn up to their camp.

One the "Equalities Minister". As with a lot in Israel that's not including Palestinians. And she was one of the most vocal

Kept being asked about official government policy on Gaza and settlements and she didn't fully answer that.

Their importance is that they have a lot of experience in the West Bank. They now how far to go and know to get support.

 

[Gramsci]

C4 report interviewed volunteer doctor who had also been in Gaza.

He said IDF are using the same tactics. Bombing around hospitals- making it more difficult for staff to access and accusing hospitals of being bases for terrorists.

 

[little_legs]

I don't think it is in any way proportionate but I don't think it is unsurprising. The Israelis are doing what they are doing because they have the military power to do it, because the attack in October last year gave them an excuse to do it; and because nobody is going to stop them doing it: nobody in the West; nobody in Russia or China; nobody in the Arab world. Iran may launch a few tit-for-tat missiles, but can't do anything significant abd are orobably more concerned about the internal security of their problem regime

Hamas has not got the resources to defend the people of Gaza from being murdered by the Israelis. It hasn't even got the resources to protect its own leadership from being killed.

The attack last year was from a marketing perspective spectacular; from a moral perspective wicked, as is the ongoing Israeli slaughter; and from a tactical perspective an absolute disaster.

50,000 people in Gaza have been murdered by the Israelis since the October 7 attack. Hamas has proved incapable of resisting the Israeli onslaught. The attack wasa futile gesture. As to "No Pasaran!" They passed and there was nothing that could stop them.

Respectfully, can I ask you what you are arguing for? I ask because you condemn Israel's actions while making posts that I have trouble reading as anything but justifications for those actions.

Please bear with me here.

For example, you say that the Oct. 7 attacks were futile. Ok, if that is your position, then you would have to argue that there was a different course of action that would meaningfully impact Israel and not invite an indiscriminate slaughter in response. Imagine for a second, if Hamas had managed to eliminate Netanyahu/Gallant and the IDF high command without harming a single civilian in the process, can you honestly say that Israel’s response would have been any less violent? What should Hamas have done? Opt for a slow genocide? Play nice and continue being strangulated?

You also say that the Oct. 7 attacks were immoral and an absolute disaster. To suggest this, you’d have to argue that Israel has no choice in the situation. That the deaths of the Palestinians and foreign aid workers in Gaza are Hamas’ fault. That water and food cannot get to Gazans is Hamas’ fault. That people being buried alive and burned alive is Hamas’ fault. That the refugee camps being bombed is Hamas’ fault. That the population of Gaza is receiving a far greater violence than inflicted by Hamas on Oct. 7 is Hamas’ fault. But you know perfectly well that Israel can stop their occupation and genocide today. You know perfectly well that the government of Israel left their hostages for dead because it refuses to negotiate with Hamas.

So I am wondering why do you choose to hold the oppressed to a moral standard by pointing out the number of the dead? Do you not see that saying that Hamas was morally wrong as they had to know Israel’s retaliation would result in extermination is a position of cowards and fascists?

Please do not take this line of questioning as a personal attack because it isn’t.

 

[teqniq]

View attachment ssstwitter.com_1729695874549.mp4

'Doctor Nahed Abu Taaema at Al-Nasser Hospital, provides an update on the condition of the nurse who was shot in the chest by an Israeli sniper while in the operating room on Thursday.

My bold. inside the operating theatre. There can be no misaprehension or claim that the nurse was a potential Hamas fighter that would stand up to scrutiny. There are other reports that a doctor and a nurse were killed but I am not sure if these are the same incident.

source

 

[teqniq]

The Times of Israel military correspondent writes:

Emanuel (Mannie) Fabian
@manniefabian

'The IDF says it has uncovered documents in the Gaza Strip that it claims reveal that six Al Jazeera journalists are operatives in the Hamas and Palestinian Islamic Jihad terror groups.

The journalists are named by the IDF as Anas al-Sharif, Alaa Salameh, Hossam Shabat, Ashraf al-Sarraj, Ismail Abu Omar, and Talal al-Arrouqi.

According to the IDF, al-Sharif was the head of a rocket launching squad and a member of a Nukhba Force company in Hamas's Nuseirat Battalion; Salameh was the deputy head of the Shaboura Battalion's propaganda unit, in Islamic Jihad; Shabat was a sniper in Hamas's Beit Hanoun Battalion; al-Sarraj was a member of Islamic Jihad's Bureij Battalion; Abu Omar served as a training company commander in the East Khan Younis Battalion, and he had been wounded in an Israeli airstrike several months ago; and al-Arrouqi was a team commander in Hamas's Hamas's Nuseirat Battalion.

The military releases the documents, which it says show personnel spreadsheets, lists of training courses, telephone books, and salary documents.

It says the documents "unequivocally prove" that the journalists functioned as members of Hamas and Islamic Jihad's respective military wings.

"These documents are proof of the involvement of Hamas terrorists in the Qatari media network, Al-Jazeera," the IDF says in a statement.

The IDF says that the named journalists are "spearheading" the spread of Hamas propaganda on Al Jazeera, especially in the northern Gaza Strip.In January, Israel said an Al Jazeera staff journalist and a freelancer killed in an airstrike in Gaza were terror operatives.

The following month, it accused another journalist with the channel, who was wounded in a separate strike, of being a deputy company commander with Hamas.

Al Jazeera has fiercely denied Israel's allegations and accused it of systematically targeting Al Jazeera employees in the Gaza Strip.'



'The IDF says' Yes of course they do. The IDF who are known for serial lying wants the remaining journalists in Northern Gaza gone, dead or alive.

source

 

[agricola]

View attachment 447999

'Doctor Nahed Abu Taaema at Al-Nasser Hospital, provides an update on the condition of the nurse who was shot in the chest by an Israeli sniper while in the operating room on Thursday.

My bold. inside the operating theatre. There can be no misaprehension or claim that the nurse was a potential Hamas fighter that would stand up to scrutiny. There are other reports that a doctor and a nurse were killed but I am not sure if these are the same incident.

source

… and here was me thinking they couldn’t outdo themselves after the time they shot Rouzan al-Najjar whilst she was stood in an open field treating patients as a clearly unarmed paramedic.

 

[teqniq]

I can't see the Labour leadership paying much attention to the EDM talked about in this piece

Growing Frustration Among Labour MPs That Government's Israel Position Isn't Working

Labour MPs say there is pressure building across the party on the Government to take stronger action in response to Israel's ongoing assault on Gaz...

www.politicshome.com

The MP Peter 'the poor' Lamb has one or two interesting things to say:

“If they want to have British weapons, they've got to be prepared to listen to us on how these weapons are deployed...." Really Peter? Do you think they will listen?

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

McGenocide

Listen to a reading by Tim Foley:

www.caitlinjohnst.one

 

[Boris Sprinkler]

Speaking of which:

So where is the hospital that Israhell stores its gold underneath?
Surely we have realized by now everything this pariah state says is a projection?

 

[teqniq]

So where is the hospital that Israhell stores its gold underneath?
Surely we have realized by now everything this pariah state says is a projection?

It was alleged to be Hezbollah gold and the hospital in the vid is in Beirut

 

[agricola]

I can't see the Labour leadership paying much attention to the EDM talked about in this piece

Growing Frustration Among Labour MPs That Government's Israel Position Isn't Working

Labour MPs say there is pressure building across the party on the Government to take stronger action in response to Israel's ongoing assault on Gaz...

www.politicshome.com

The MP Peter 'the poor' Lamb has one or two interesting things to say:

“If they want to have British weapons, they've got to be prepared to listen to us on how these weapons are deployed...." Really Peter? Do you think they will listen?

Talking about weapons is in itself a bit of a fig leaf - in reality these licences are mostly to do with the F-35 programme, and we are over a barrel on that one because we cannot afford to be kicked out of it.

What would be much better is economic and diplomatic pressure, as in recognising Palestine as a state and (with the EU and in honest and open coordination with the GCC / the rest of the world) taking economic measures against the Israeli government that are aimed at stopping this ongoing escalation as well as the openly genocidal talk from so many people at the top of Israeli politics. These economic measures should not include sanctions or seizures, just a cessation of trade with the country until a ceasefire deal is agreed and in force and genuine progress is made towards some form of long term deal that is acceptable to Palestinians.

It would also help if, for Lebanon especially, a plan was developed independent of the Israelis that could calm the border down / protect UNFIL and the residents of the south and was then presented to them as a fait accompli.

 

[Gramsci]

I can't see the Labour leadership paying much attention to the EDM talked about in this piece

Growing Frustration Among Labour MPs That Government's Israel Position Isn't Working

Labour MPs say there is pressure building across the party on the Government to take stronger action in response to Israel's ongoing assault on Gaz...

www.politicshome.com

The MP Peter 'the poor' Lamb has one or two interesting things to say:

“If they want to have British weapons, they've got to be prepared to listen to us on how these weapons are deployed...." Really Peter? Do you think they will listen?

This sounds sensible to me:

The EDM "calls on the Government to act in support of the UN resolution and ICJ opinion including by ending all military exports to Israel, banning the import of goods from illegal Israeli settlements and revoking the 2030 Roadmap which deepens UK economic, trade and security ties with Israel".

It's not even asking for BDS.

So why isn't it being done?

What does get to me is that Government and people like Starmer keep saying how terrible it all is in Gaza etc.

But do they really mean it?

I don't think they do.

I never hear anything about red lines anymore I notice.

What happened to those red lines that Israel was not meant to go over?

 

[brogdale]

This is a very disturbing read:

Israel has taken human shields to a whole new criminal level

The practice was initially revealed by Al Jazeera but, subsequently, Haaretz published an entire expose about how Israeli troops have abducted Palestinian civilians, dressed them in military uniforms, attached cameras to their bodies, and sent them into underground tunnels as well as buildings in order to shield Israeli troops.

By dressing Palestinian civilians in Israeli military uniforms and casting them as combatants the Israeli military purposefully conceals their vulnerability. It deploys them as shields not to deter Palestinian fighters from striking Israeli soldiers, but rather to draw their fire and thus reveal their location, allowing the Israeli troops to launch a counterattack and kill the fighters. The moment these human shields, masked as soldiers, are sent into the tunnels, they are transformed from vulnerable civilians into fodder.

 

[brogdale]

 

[Gramsci]

Interesting article in Haaretz on future of Gaza

Netanyahu is selling Gaza to private militias | Opinion

***

www.haaretz.com

Article says Netanyahu isn't clear in public about what he sees as future of Gaza. But as with a lot of what he has done in the past its actions not words.

Also comes across as being flexible to me and making policy on the hoof to me.

Aim is to maximise Israeli control and negate Palestinian self determination is how I read it.

The summary of article is,

In practice, Netanyahu's plan for postwar Gaza consists of military occupation, mercenaries and settlements. That's a surefire recipe for the next disaster

What's new to me is that Israel is talking to contractors to take over distributing aid and running Gaza.

The kind of contractors that were seen in Iraq and Afghanistan

IDF had told Netanyahu it does not want to get involved in aid distribution. Netanyahu definitely does not want PA.

So the one they are talking to is GDC. Whose CEO was interviewed saying the following,

Essentially, this would privatize military rule over Gaza by handing it over to private companies with private financial interests and nothing beyond that. The goal is to transfer moral and legal responsibility from Israel to these armed militias. And indeed, in a very troubling interview in Tuesday's Yedioth Ahronoth, the company's founder and CEO, Moti Kahana, said that "if something happens, we'll send a message to Gaza's residents – you don't want to mess with us." That's a genuine mafia-style line.

On settlements the article says this will happen.

Alongside this process, Netanyahu is also benefiting from sowing ambiguity about his position on establishing settlements in Gaza. On one hand, he claims this won't happen (or more accurately, that it's "unrealistic"). But on the other, his party is running events promoting this messianic dream. On this issue too, in the end, the decisive factor won't be the words, but that first settlement outpost, which will be "difficult to evacuate."

Basically Israel government don't want PA, UN or Palestinians to have any say in future of Gaza.

This all sounds plausible to me. Given position of my government and US I would not be surprised if some of this happened. Would get caveats and red lines from western governments but no real pressure.

 

[Gramsci]

Effectively Gaza will be one big prison camp with settlers

 

[Gramsci]

This is a very disturbing read:

Israel has taken human shields to a whole new criminal level

View attachment 448043

The Haaretz article is worth a read

IDF uses Gazan civilians as human shields to inspect potentially booby-trapped tunnels

***

www.haaretz.com

Of course its hard to verify a lot of what is said as the IDF soldiers did so anonymously.

Its clear it does happen. What is hard to get firm evidence of is who authorises it. And how far up the chain of command does it go

From the soldiers testimonies it does go far up the chain of command.

Some soldiers said they questioned the use of Gaza civilians in this way. They were not happy with doing it. Previously they had used trained IDF dogs. They got pep talk from commanders in response to their misgivings.

IDF officially told Haaretz its not something IDF do. If it does happen its against IDF rules.

Its use in previous years led to case being brought to Israel supreme courts who ruled it illegal. And told IDF to stop doing it.

Its one of those times when the most moral armed in the world and the only democracy in the middle east say one thing and do something else in practise.

Its also an instance of where ordinary men can end up doing things against their own principles in extreme situations. The IDF history is that it was made up from the militias that did the Nakba. It's never been , despite the image it gives, just a regular army.

 

[PTK]

This is a very disturbing read:

Israel has taken human shields to a whole new criminal level

View attachment 448043

This appears to be unprecedented. This is horrific. Where is the condemnation?

 

[brogdale]

This appears to be unprecedented. This is horrific. Where is the condemnation?

Well, Gordon's last para certainly shows what he thinks...

Hopes that international law will protect and bring justice to the Palestinian people have historically been misplaced because colonial racism – as critical legal scholars from Antony Anghie to Noura Erekat have pointed out – informs not merely Israel’s actions but also the international legal order, including the way the International Criminal Court (ICC) metes out justice. To get a glimpse of this racism, all one needs to do is browse the website of the International Criminal Court to see who it has been willing to indict.

 

[Larry O'Hara]

There seems to be a wilful refusal to realise that coordinating with the idf is what is getting people killed. Palestinians move where the zionists demand and are bombed in the areas they're told to move to. Aid workers tell the idf their routes and their vehicles are attacked. After hundreds of these incidents you don't need to be sherlock holmes or poirot to work out what's going on

And of course Hamas leaders liaise with the CIA and are then vaporised…

 

[teqniq]

It was alleged to be Hezbollah gold and the hospital in the vid is in Beirut

More on the alleged gold:

 

[Gramsci]

IDF use of human shields banned by Israeli high court in 2005

Israeli high court bans military use of Palestinians as human shields

· Even 'volunteers' breach Geneva pact, judge rules · Human rights victory after three-year struggle

www.theguardian.com

Looks to me the ban was never put into place.

The IDF had been doing this for years.

 

[Gramsci]

Israel's Equality Minister calls for another Nakba in Gaza

What can one say?

And she isn't part of the far right in Israel. She is in Likud.

 

[teqniq]

View attachment ssstwitter.com_1729718096075.mp4

Also from the same guy:


Hossam Shabat is one of the 6 journalists cited by the IDF as being a Hamas operative.

 

[Pickman's model]

Israel's Equality Minister calls for another Nakba in Gaza

What can one say?

And she isn't part of the far right in Israel. She is in Likud.

She's part of the far enough right

 

[teqniq]

He is of course standing trial in absentia:

Australian-Israeli Former Diplomat Mark Regev Under Trial for Genocide Advocacy

 

[Duncan2]

He is of course standing trial in absentia:

Australian-Israeli Former Diplomat Mark Regev Under Trial for Genocide Advocacy

View attachment 448067

View attachment 448068

Would this be the very same siege in respect of which our own PM said " I think they have that right" ?

 

[maomao]

He is of course standing trial in absentia:

Australian-Israeli Former Diplomat Mark Regev Under Trial for Genocide Advocacy

View attachment 448067

View attachment 448068

Typical. Obsessed with Israel and ignoring genocides in the US and Australia.

 

[ID47]

Israel's Equality Minister calls for another Nakba in Gaza

What can one say?

And she isn't part of the far right in Israel. She is in Likud.

It's over for Israel, there is no way back from where they have gone.